Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

Its a different Vlad since the Peter fight and he has improved in every fight

True to a point...but I think it's become a tired line trotted out far too often. It's lazy thinking.
In two of his losses, Wlad came a cropper because he could not finish his opponent off and gassed.
They say he learned from that.

But, in the Wach fight, he again tried to finish his opponent off, could not, and gassed. Wach could not take advantage of that, but does that mean that Wlad is any better now, because he didn't lose? He made the same mistake, but luckily he didn't pay for it this time.

[fists of fury]

Originally Posted by Bummy Davis

Wach can bang, his trouble was his aim at getting through Vlads defense and Vlad's Jab for one...time will tell what becomes of Wach if the last fight did not ruin him but I think he is better than Helenius,Thompson and at least as good as Fury, Vlad showed good composure when hit but Wach hit him clean with 250lbs but could not do it too often ...Larry fought far worse than Wach, Scott Frank, Leroy Williams, Tex Cobb and many others

I've often been critical of Larry's title opposition. He fought some stiffs for sure, and he should have fought the likes of Page, Thomas etc. It's not about the quality of opposition. I'm not concerned about that from either Larry's side or Wlad's side.

It's about overcoming adversity. Beating the odds when one is not expected to. Larry has. We know he can get up from titanic right hands. We know he can gut it out and fight in the trenches when he has to. He can box when he wants to. He had not one dimension, but a few. Sure he struggled here and there, but he gritted it out and got the W regardless.

Wlad did overcome against Peter fair enough (more like survived) but he folded like a cheap deck chair on three other occasions when his mettle was tested. Not good.

[Bummy Davis]

Originally Posted by fists of fury

I've often been critical of Larry's title opposition. He fought some stiffs for sure, and he should have fought the likes of Page, Thomas etc. It's not about the quality of opposition. I'm not concerned about that from either Larry's side or Wlad's side.

It's about overcoming adversity. Beating the odds when one is not expected to. Larry has. We know he can get up from titanic right hands. We know he can gut it out and fight in the trenches when he has to. He can box when he wants to. He had not one dimension, but a few. Sure he struggled here and there, but he gritted it out and got the W regardless.

Wlad did overcome against Peter fair enough (more like survived) but he folded like a cheap deck chair on three other occasions when his mettle was tested. Not good.

well, you have to look a little closer to the guys that Holmes overcame, one of them were Shavers, who had a history of being overcome after having his opponent down or hurt, Mercado,Cobb, and those fights were just 6 and 9 months after Holmes also Lyle,Stander and that does not include the guys that just strait out Knock Shavers out or dominated him like Quarry and the 20-25 -0 Bob Stalling

As far as Snipes, he was dropped 2x and dominated by Coetzee but gifted the win so King could get him and not Coetzee the shot, it almost backfired on Holmes but from the Holmes fight on Snipes only won 1 fight out of 7 strait fights so lets not get carried away with how great a win it was...It was 22 fight Snipes who was just dominated by Gerrie Coetzee and although stole that win had only one win in his next 7 fights

Kevin Issac had Holmes down but it was Kevin 2nd fight and Larry's 7th so not much credence there

[HOUDINI]

The idea is that Holmes was hit by ko punches. That right from Shavers was titanic as was that right by Snipes. When he was met with adversity he came back and won. Add to this the great fight Weaver gave Larry hurting him badly several times before being stopped This is a mark of an all time great champion. On the other side of the coin you have Wlad who was brutally koed three times falling to the canvas in sections. To be fair Lewis being koed twice by single shots is also a significant black mark against his all time ranking. On the plus side he came back in return bouts with both to completely dominate which is a huge plus.

[TheSouthpaw]

Something like this isnt even worth gettin worked up over..Wlad isnt and never will be half the man Holmes was in the ring...Larry was way to busy for Wlad and there is no way he would be able to deal with larrys jab and constant combinations

Holmes KO inside of 7 or 8.