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Old 11-24-2012, 02:04 AM   #61
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
So you suggest we look at a similar fight to draw a comparisons to a potential Wlad-Holmes and you bring forth a fight that Wlad whitewashed his opponent. Dominated round after round. Completely controlled pace, distance and the amount of punishment doled out. Thank you for arguing my own point.

And then you say that Wlad's jab doesn't have the power to control Holmes when damn near every opponent and sparring partner, including some who post on this very board, testify that his jab is a power punch of extremely persuasive value. This coming not from keyboard jockeys but guys who have faced him in the ring.

Jolly good show.
His opponents readily and repeatedly take Wlad's jab and keep coming forward,They must have a lot of respect for his jab? PLEASE now you've just said the people who say Wlad's jab is a power punch are the same level of fighter Holmes is.

He controlled the pace by stepping back as soon as Haye feinted,That's not controlling because Haye kept flying at him all he did was fight Wlad's fight soon as Wlad's missed the jab,straight right,left hook in round2 Haye was beside him and could have really punished him but for some reason ran like a little girl the whole night not only that Wlad was off balance several times he missed Haye and yet again Haye ran.

Wladimir fitness reigns supreme and I would assume when you see him in real life he is a very intimating man but Holmes was a vicious s.o.b.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:14 AM   #62
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

Interesting comparing there resumes


Holmes:

Tim Witherspoon- Undefeated, future WBC, WBA Heavyweight Champion

Earnie Shavers- Top 5 rated contender by Ring Magazine

Ken Norton- WBC Heavyweight Champion

Mike Weaver- Future WBA Heavyweight Champion

Trevor Berbick- Future WBC Heavyweight Champion

Bonecrusher Smith- Future WBA Heavyweight Champion

Ray Mercer- Undefeated WBO Heavyweight Champion



Wlad:

David Haye- WBA Heavyweight Champion

Ruslan Chagaev- Undefeated, WBA Heavyweight Champion

Chris Byrd- IBF Heavyweight Champion

Sam Peter- Future WBC Heavyweight Champion

Sultan Ibragimov- WBO Heavyweight Champion

Eddie Chambers- Top 5 rated by Ring Magazine

Both cleaned out there eras pretty emphatically, and beat a lot of current/future world champions
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:30 AM   #63
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

[quote=SuzieQ49;14253898]Wlad has never lost in his prime, nor troubled in his prime. Wlad's prime is 2007-2012.



So you believe Holmes matches up stylistically against a 6'6 245lb ATG heavyweight with a comparable jab, fast hands, immense one punch knockout power in both fists, great defense, great sense of range, and highly technical skills?[/quote]
Wlad has NO inside game at all, he grabs and clinches ,and he has not the ***** to out game Holmes ,he's pathologically gun shy ,
One clumsy right from Wach had him all over the place.
Larry wins this.
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:48 AM   #64
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

ATG Heavyweight? About 90% of the fighters he faced as champion are discouraged by the end of RD1,They're not their to win they're their to get some money aka BUMS
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Old 11-24-2012, 06:09 AM   #65
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

In terms of an era context both did clean out but Larry missed on some crucial big fights. Wlad has a stronger championship claim than Larry did imo.

Spoon and Williams both gave Larry trouble with their jab.

However ****eys height never seemed to bother him.

Larry does have a better jab and a better inside game.

Still favour Holmes slightly but not by much. I do think wlad will go down as the greater heavyweight however.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:10 AM   #66
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Controversial stuff there.
To say the least !
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:28 AM   #67
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Yes, biased ****.

Do you mean good footwork in general, or superior to his opponent? He showed good footwork against Haye, making him miss over and over again by stepping out of range.

He almost always steps away when an opponent attacks, and yes, when he's fighting someone and they get inside, he clinches.
It's a tactic he uses to win. It's worked pretty well so far.

No. Wlad is better than Norton, not Frazier. You seem to think that Kenny Norton would stop Wlad, which makes no ****ing sense. At all.
You think he'll get inside consistently and get off hard punches? Or do you think he'd get into a crouch, try to get to Wlad's chest and end up being stuck on the end of a jab?
The latter is much more likely than the former.

Byrd, Chagaev, Chambers.

Haye showed good offensive and defensive ability. Not great, mind you, far from it. But he was explosive, fast, and had very sharp head-movement.

How many heavyweight ATG's could you say faced an opponent with stellar offensive, defensive, feinting and tricking ability?


It took him four years to claim his first world HW title. He lost it three years later to Corrie Sanders, then reclaimed it three years after that loss.
He has since held it for six years.


Yes, Chagaev, one of the premier HW's in the world at that time. Or whatever.


Okay, so Norton gets torn a new one against Foreman and ****ey, (two destructively hard punchers) and you think he'd KO Wladimir Klitschko?
He doesn't have the strength to fight out of the clinches, nor the style to get inside.
Nor the speed to trap him, or power to finish him.
Wlad would stop Norton.
Whattt fkn cr4p.
Do you wipe your mouth after you're typed this?
Norton went the distance with Holmes,Ali and beat Ali both jabbers,His style was effective vs Jabbers. Constantly moving he would destroy DESTROY Wlad in the later rounds.
Wladimir has not faced a fighter with Norton workrate while Norton has. He would KO Wladimir.


You say he showed great footwork by avoding all of David Haye's punches? You mean the punches where he lifted out 5M away from Wladimir to avoid the jab? Ya good one.


These great fighters you have mentioned,They're so good they decided to fight Wlad from the outside? Fight Wlad how he wants to be fought? Yea they deserve recognition..NOT

I said whatever for Chagev because I misspelt his name but I believe it was Sultan who blocked Wlads jab.

What I said was name a opponent who could show some speed,feints,offensive,defensive ability at a heavyweight championship level workrate of the past that Wladimir has fought because I can't.
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Old 11-24-2012, 07:59 AM   #68
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Coming from you, I'll take that as a compliment.

Quote:
And he was great in those fights! But they don't hit nearly as hard as Wlad, and Ali wasn't at his best.
I knew it, Ali may not but Holmes can. They may not hit as hard but look at the work rate in the later rounds Wlad can't keep up and not only that God made the heaven,earth and the rest was made in China like Wladimirs chin.

Quote:
Yeah, 6'3 jabbers. You think he'd perform the same against a 6'6, 245lb jabber? With genuine one punch KO power?
Besides, just because Holmes and Ali were "jabbers" hardly means that Wlad is in the same mold as them.
Ali at that stage was much easier to land on than Wlad is now.
Just because Wlad has "One punch KO power" Doesn't mean jack,He wouldn't be able to land on Norton with full force even if he did.


Quote:
No, he wouldn't. Come on, man. Wlad is brilliant at keeping his opponents on the outside, and even when they manage to get inside, they're tied up.
The same will happen to Norton, if he's not disposed of earlier.
Wlad's punching power would bother him immensely.
Wlad's punching power would not bother him because Wlad wouldn't be able to hit him with everything,Wlad leads with his jab keeps his hands high until the mid round where they're dropped completely or even worse when he puts his left out in front wayyy to left where he's baiting and the fighters do nothing...


Quote:
It's true Wladimir has not faced a fighter with awesome work rate we have seen in the past.


Quote:
No, he showed good footwork against Haye, effectively neutralizing his offense.
What the **** do you want him to do? Show Ray Robinson level footwork
Footwork is able to be in any situation and get out,move in,stick,out,move the feet fast,sidestepping if they rush,If you rush Wlad he clinches,,Also his great footwork he was off balance several times he missed Haye and like I said earlier in RD2 when he missed the jab,right,hook and Haye ducked and ran away he could have really punished Wlad.Don't mistake reflects for Footwork.


Quote:
They didn't make a conscious decision to stay on the outside and allow Wladimir to pummel him, they couldn't do anything else.
They could have gotten Wlad in the later rounds but had no clue has to how,I'm pretty sure those fighters don't even watch film.


Quote:
How many HW's can you honestly say possessed all of these attributes?
Where did i say possesed ALL of these attributes I said posses some at a HW Championship level we have seen in the past because I can't.All I see is plodders, But the HWs who possesed speed,feints,offensive,defensive ability

Joe Louis
Muhammed Ali
Ezzard Charles
Young Mike Tyson
Tommy Loughran
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Old 11-24-2012, 08:43 AM   #69
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

Wlad ****s all over Norton.

Intact wlads only criticism is he got sparked in his prime.

Norton suffered an embarassing early loss in much worse fashion. He also got wiped by every power puncher he faced. No doubt sanders and Brewster would do him also.

Wlad is clear levels above Norton. He wouldn't struggle with shot Ali nor with jimmy young. He'd probably be able to fend off the green Larry Holmes for a couple of years also.

In a fight wlad stops Norton and early.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:05 AM   #70
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

Larry is the far greater boxer......not close. Holmes boxes his ears off before knocking him out.
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Old 11-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #71
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
Wlad ****s all over Norton.

Intact wlads only criticism is he got sparked in his prime.

Norton suffered an embarassing early loss in much worse fashion. He also got wiped by every power puncher he faced. No doubt sanders and Brewster would do him also.

Wlad is clear levels above Norton. He wouldn't struggle with shot Ali nor with jimmy young. He'd probably be able to fend off the green Larry Holmes for a couple of years also.

In a fight wlad stops Norton and early.
Ali was FAAAAAR from shot when Norton defeated him. He had two of his best three wins ahead of him.


And Jimmy Young's win over Foreman was a better scalp than any Wlad has managed so far.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:31 AM   #72
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Originally Posted by cuchulain View Post
Ali was FAAAAAR from shot when Norton defeated him. He had two of his best three wins ahead of him.


And Jimmy Young's win over Foreman was a better scalp than any Wlad has managed so far.

I was referring to the third fight.

Wlad wouldn't struggle with young, do you disagree?
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:32 AM   #73
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

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Originally Posted by HOUDINI View Post
Larry is the far greater boxer......not close. Holmes boxes his ears off before knocking him out.
It's very close. A have both in the lower reaches of my top 10.

Wlad will likely continue his current dominance for a year or two cementing a top 5 spot on my list.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:48 AM   #74
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

Why do people say Larry is the "more skilled" fighter?

I think the ultimate test to prove boxing skill is winning the Olympics. Fighters very rarely win on KOs, so you have to showcase your boxing ability.

Wladimir has demonstrated his elite pugilism at the highest of levels.
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Old 11-24-2012, 10:51 AM   #75
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Default Re: Larry Holmes vs. Wladimir Klitschko.

I think Wlad can take Larry's punches.

I don't think Larry can take Wlad's punches.
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