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Old 05-05-2011, 06:38 AM   #1
Boilermaker
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Default Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

this is just a thread to post Some Joe Choynski articles, and hopefully raise the profile of probably the most underated (pound for pound) fighter going around.

Here is some articles by choynski about the early days.

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Old 05-05-2011, 07:12 AM   #2
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

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the 6ft 3 Maine Giant sounds like a reasonable win for an inexperienced fighter.

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And the Irish Giant - Mike McCarney sounds a win that is not a bad result on a pound for pound level.


And if Billy Wilson was considered to have a punch for John L Sullivan, is that the equivalent of a modern Heavyweight Contender? NOte that Choynski lists him at 6 2 which is a deal bigger than CBZ has.

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Joe certainly wasnt afraid of the big guys. He followed his KO loss in a brutallyly close fight with World Class Joe goddard with an appointment with the 6 ft 5 in Owen Sullivan.
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:28 AM   #3
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

hells yeah!!!! i've been waiting for a thread like this. WAR CHOYNSKI!!!
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Old 05-05-2011, 07:38 AM   #4
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

It surprises me that Mick Dooley is described as such a clever fighter by Choynski. I always considered him as more of tough journeyman than a clever fighter.

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I have read this Larry Foley story before, in John Ls articles i think.

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It is interesting that choynski did a bit of a John L style KO tour and seemed to do similarly well.

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Here is Choynski's version of his fight with Fitz.

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Old 05-05-2011, 08:23 AM   #5
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

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Choynski Maher fights really do seem like a massive feud. And Jim Hall was obviously a much better fighter than he is remembered today.

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this one has a little bit on his draw with Jeffries. When you think about Choynski, he his performances against Corbett , Fitz, Jeffries and Johnson are probably 4 pound for pound performances as good as anyone had put up, certainly if you go by Choynskis descriptions.

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And it really seems taht Sharkey was a rough and tumble fighter. It sounds like he was more an old time variation of John Ruiz, than a marciano clone as is often stated (hope this doesnt throw things off topic).

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the Kid MC Coy fight certainly sounds like the a roberry.

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Old 05-05-2011, 09:12 AM   #6
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

It was certainly rough and rugged in those days. You can call some of it unskilled, but wrestling could from time to time certainly play a larger roll back then than it does today it seems.

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the win over Bill Hanrahan is another underated win. Just looking solely at the results of figthers, it is interesting that Wild Bill Hanrahan had knocked out Marvin Hart, who obviously beat Johnson and went on to win a world title. And give that Choynski himself had already knocked out Johnson and beat Hart, it is interesting to stop and think where choynski should be rated at the time. Certainly it seems that by now, in 1902 he deserved a much higher rating than Jack Johnson. Given that Jeffries is to retire in two years, it makes (or at least it should) it quite obvious why johnson wasnt considered a real challenge for Jeffries crown. In fact, it certainly seems that he should rate quite fairly behind choynski at this point. In fact, Choynski must have been in the mix for a shot. Despite his previous losses, He had drawn and arguably beaten Jeffries and Johnson and Goddard. Plus if his version is to believed, he virtually KOd Fitzsimmons and McCoy. And his fight with Hart seems to be fast paced and very close. Actually it is a very underated win. Like the Johnson fight, it is an aged veteran from the last decade taking it to a champion of the next decade. this Hart win takes us to 1903. In fact, you would have to reckon that it is not until Kid Carter Knocks him out, that he would be taken down as probably the most deserving challegner to Jeffries. In fact, it seems that Choynski probably has a better claim than Hart, Johnson or Munroe, during this period. I wonder why he is not spoken of as being ducked by jeffries.

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This one covers Creedon, Ryan and Odonnell fights. All underated wins today.

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Old 05-05-2011, 06:12 PM   #7
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

Interesting stuff!
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Old 05-05-2011, 08:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

choynski was the man for his size, but of course nowadays he'd have no chance with the 250 pound slugs er, lightning fast heavyweights.
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Old 05-05-2011, 09:04 PM   #9
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

at the 2:50 mark of this video, is this the only footage of choynski??
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzAS-wihuVI[/ame]
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:30 AM   #10
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

Kmac,

Choynski can be seen sparring with Jeffries in 1910. Choynski was well past his prime, but you never know it as he was very fast with his feet and hands. A jitter big type who moved around and threw quick punches. Worth watching.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:36 AM   #11
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mendoza View Post
Kmac,

Choynski can be seen sparring with Jeffries in 1910. Choynski was well past his prime, but you never know it as he was very fast with his feet and hands. A jitter big type who moved around and threw quick punches. Worth watching.
I agree that he looks pretty good given his age. It is pretty amazing when you think about it. It is almost like Lennox Lewis coming out of retirement to fight the Klitchskos and using Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield as his main sparring partners.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:57 AM   #12
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boilermaker View Post
I agree that he looks pretty good given his age. It is pretty amazing when you think about it. It is almost like Lennox Lewis coming out of retirement to fight the Klitchskos and using Mike Tyson and Evander Holyfield as his main sparring partners.
Joe Choynski ,seen sparring with Jim Jeffries in 1910, was Forty Two years old at the time...Choynski stopped boxing 6 years before in 1904.
His claim to fame was stopping the bigger ,young Jack Johnson years before.
But for a 42 year old man ,Choynski looks awfully spry...
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Old 05-06-2011, 01:27 PM   #13
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by burt bienstock View Post
Joe Choynski ,seen sparring with Jim Jeffries in 1910, was Forty Two years old at the time...Choynski stopped boxing 6 years before in 1904.
His claim to fame was stopping the bigger ,young Jack Johnson years before.
But for a 42 year old man ,Choynski looks awfully spry...
Sprier than a 35 year old Jeffries,who did not stop boxing till 1905 ,5 years before. .
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Old 05-06-2011, 04:51 PM   #14
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

Choynski is a fighter that students of the era become more and more impressed by, even when he lost.

He fought anybody put in front of him, often under unfavourable circumstances/contracts, or facing big weight disparities.

He could put anybody on queer street based on a single mistake. A green Jack Johnson made one mistake against him and it was goodnight sweet prince.

This was a great p4p fighter, who was hurt by the lack of a suitable weight division for his talents. Against the bigger fighters his size and lack of durability kept him just shy of the top.
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Old 05-06-2011, 05:08 PM   #15
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Default Re: Chrysanthemum Joe Choynski Appreciation thread

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Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Choynski is a fighter that students of the era become more and more impressed by, even when he lost.

He fought anybody put in front of him, often under unfavourable circumstances/contracts, or facing big weight disparities.

He could put anybody on queer street based on a single mistake. A green Jack Johnson made one mistake against him and it was goodnight sweet prince.

This was a great p4p fighter, who was hurt by the lack of a suitable weight division for his talents. Against the bigger fighters his size and lack of durability kept him just shy of the top.
To balance an earlier negative post concerning Jeffries,if we accept that Choynski was clearly a terrific hitter, the fact that a green ,and defensively naive Jeffries ,weathered big shots from Choynski for 20 rds without going to the canvas, must speak volumes for the quality of Jeffries chin.
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