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Old 10-17-2013, 05:10 PM   #1
Shake
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Default Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

I was scanning the heavyweight division for people to trouble Ali -- and I pondered on Evander. Ali is nigh impossible to stop, so we're looking for someone to outpoint him. We need workrate, heart and quick feet. Purely on paper, Holyfield doesn't do too bad in those categories. He can come in low and he's a hooker (boy that sounds wrong). Could he be such a persistent pest that he runs Ali close?

He doesn't box as well as Ken Norton, and he doesn't pressure as well as Frazier. But neither does both as well as he. So he's an acceptable mix of the two. Does that work, though? Does one need to be a specialist? Does a jack-of-all-trades leave you wanting in all categories?

Larry Holmes vs Holyfield, part 1:

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Fighting a Holmes on the comeback trail hardly qualifies you for prime Ali, but I find at least the early rounds vs ancient greats to provide a clue.

Watching the first round I see a Holyfield that doesn't resist being tied up -- that worries me. He seems open defensively for Ali's one-two on the tip-toes, but Larry's vaunted jab has slowed with age and isn't quite the fearsome weapon it used to be and sails past for the most part.

If Ali can stay out of reach it is possible that Holyfield, looking to take chances on offense, reverts back to that defense. It would be bad.

On offense, I see chances for Holyfield getting low and stepping in with the left hook.

How would you see this going?
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Old 10-17-2013, 08:31 PM   #2
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Alis speed is the great obstacle. Prime Ali was just too quick and he saw everything coming which allowed him to slip punches easily. Ali moves about the ring with Holy in pursuit but he can't find his target..in process he is beaten up. Ali by late stoppage probably because of cuts/swelling. Holy has a few moments but not enough of them. Ali TKO 12 with him leading 8-3 when it's stopped.
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Old 10-18-2013, 10:30 PM   #3
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Holyfield makes things uncomfortable for Ali, but doesn't win more than 4 or 5 rounds at most. Close-ish, but clear win for Ali.
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Old 10-19-2013, 02:53 AM   #4
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Ali beat HW Champs Patterson x2, Liston x2, Terrell (WBA), Ellis (WBA), Frazier x2, Foreman, and L. Spinks. Holyfield beat more Lineal HW Champs than anybody. He beat Douglas, Foreman, Holmes, Tyson x2, Bowe, Moorer, and Rahman. He drew with Lewis. He also beat other HW Champs including Thomas, Dokes, Mercer (WBO), and Ruiz. Holyfield would give Ali hell but come up a little short after 12 or 15 rounds.
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Old 10-19-2013, 04:38 AM   #5
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
Holyfield makes things uncomfortable for Ali, but doesn't win more than 4 or 5 rounds at most. Close-ish, but clear win for Ali.

Precisely this. Holy has his moments,definitely but not nearly enough of them.
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Old 10-19-2013, 11:02 PM   #6
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Holy would have his moments but prime Ali has too much hand and foot speed for Evander. Ali by unanimous decision.
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Old 10-20-2013, 06:45 PM   #7
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Ali wins by a wide margin.
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Old 10-20-2013, 07:50 PM   #8
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Ali wins UD maybe TKO
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:10 PM   #9
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveK View Post
Holyfield makes things uncomfortable for Ali, but doesn't win more than 4 or 5 rounds at most. Close-ish, but clear win for Ali.

Agree 100%.

Ali's superior boxing skill will win it.
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:43 PM   #10
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Evander just doesn't have the defensive skills to stop Ali from piling up points. He can go the distance, but I don't see this as being a particularly close decision.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:25 PM   #11
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

edit

Last edited by John Galt; 03-28-2014 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:31 PM   #12
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

John..I'm speechless. Ali was by far much quicker than Holy...both and and foot. Not comparable in any way shape or form.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:37 PM   #13
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Galt View Post
Put Ali in with Dokes, and you might not be so impressed with Ali. Totally different levels of competition.
Here's a fat old out of shape Ali preparing for Evangelista against a 5-0 Dokes:

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Old 10-21-2013, 09:40 PM   #14
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

edit

Last edited by John Galt; 03-28-2014 at 10:12 AM.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:54 PM   #15
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Default Re: Evander Holyfield vs Muhammad Ali, 12 rounds. Prime for prime.

John..your very young. Prime Ali was far quicker than not only Holy but any other hwt champion. It's not close. Alis legs alone allowed him to make opponents miss. His punches came so quick opponents could not slip them. Holy was a great fighter but to say he was as fast or faster than Ali is just plain ignorant.
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