Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Boxing Training/Amateur Boxing


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-09-2012, 07:17 AM   #1
megavolt
Constantly Shadowboxing
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 75
Default Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

I like to read up often on fitness stuff but the points and basis on these theories are so contradictory to conventional fitness wisdom it blows my mind.

Essentially it welcomes the breakdown of muscle tissue through cortisol release while fasting, and during this state your insulin sensitivity and growth hormone release during post-workout nutrition is at an all-time high. Humans benefit through recycle/reparation of older muscle fibers rather than growth of new fibers on top of old fibers, thus maintaining strength/fitness (can't really see how you can grow too much like this) while inhibiting muscle hyperplasia, essentially stunting cell division and muscle age... as well as various neurological benefits

Can anyone chime in on this??

Last edited by megavolt; 04-09-2012 at 07:37 AM.
megavolt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 04-09-2012, 05:15 PM   #2
megavolt
Constantly Shadowboxing
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 75
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

No one? hmmm
megavolt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 03:13 AM   #3
brown bomber
2010 Poster of the Year
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 15,455
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

I'd like to know more about it
brown bomber is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 03:40 AM   #4
tofu2009
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Birmingham
Posts: 475
vCash: 500
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Never heard of it but I know the guy in your Avatar has some 5 day fast or something?
tofu2009 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-10-2012, 09:55 PM   #5
bald_head_slick
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: In the ring with you impossible to drop
Posts: 13,748
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Yes.

During a study, it was said that the people could eat whatever they wanted and still maintain healthy weight. On a related note, calorie restriction has been shown to increase the lifespan of animals by MANY years with increased health in studies as well.

Not sure how fasting more than one day would tie in with training though. Seems you would get a bit light headed during exertion. Just living like a regular Joe? It is probably for the best.
bald_head_slick is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 05:51 AM   #6
lefty
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,902
vCash: 1290
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

It's something that may extend the lifespan of a sedentary individual but for someone who regularly performs intense exercise it's not going to be beneficial for a whole list of reasons.
I'd imagine that it would increase the fTRP:BCAA ratio due to the increased protein metabolised for energy, which is a negative when it comes to neurological function/energy.
Where'd you read these things? It sounds unscientific and unlikely to me. Muscle hyperplasia isn't something anybody is likely to have too much of anyway unless they're a competitive bodybuilder/steroid user. Not a lot is known about muscle hyperplasia apart from some old animal studies.
Does fasting cause increased cortisol release? I didn't think it did.. Fasting does raise levels of HGH and that's not really compatible with increased cortisol levels. HGH inhibits protein breakdown so that can't really explain what you're talking about, I imagine that the energy deficit during fasting would cancel out any benefits of the increased HGH release anyway.
The body does a great job of adapting to times of stress, for a limited time.... If you aren't exercising and want to lose weight I think intermittent fasting could be good.
If you're consistently performing at a high intensity level I don't see how intermittent fasting could be compatible with that.
lefty is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 06:46 AM   #7
megavolt
Constantly Shadowboxing
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 75
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Fyi guys I'm not trying to lose weight at all, in fact I'm confident in my athleticism, just wanted to see some opinions and it confirms some of my own thoughts as well

Before I forget to mention it, I think I should mention the premise of the topic is how intermittent fasting claims to have benefits of extended health and muscular life span and not peak athleticism, by breaking down the tissue during the fasting phase and rejuvenating it during the post-exercise recovery

In regards to cortisol levels, I don't see why not since fasting would entail a diminished protein intake. While HGH doesn't really work well in tandem with raised cortisol levels I've also read that fasting also provides benefits on insulin sensitivity. So after a fasting session one can exercise and ingest a quickly digestible protein such as whey (apparently whey ingestion increases GH levels as well as exercise so fasting, exercise, and post-exercise protein nutrition should compound the effect) and after 45 minutes or so, take some additional protein as well as some high GI carbohydrates to take advantage of the increased insulin sensitivity and suppress the cortisol. Also after an hour and a half or so, consume a large meal such that there is no caloric deficit
megavolt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 09:39 AM   #8
lefty
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,902
vCash: 1290
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by megavolt View Post
Fyi guys I'm not trying to lose weight at all, in fact I'm confident in my athleticism, just wanted to see some opinions and it confirms some of my own thoughts as well

Before I forget to mention it, I think I should mention the premise of the topic is how intermittent fasting claims to have benefits of extended health and muscular life span and not peak athleticism, by breaking down the tissue during the fasting phase and rejuvenating it during the post-exercise recovery

In regards to cortisol levels, I don't see why not since fasting would entail a diminished protein intake. While HGH doesn't really work well in tandem with raised cortisol levels I've also read that fasting also provides benefits on insulin sensitivity. So after a fasting session one can exercise and ingest a quickly digestible protein such as whey (apparently whey ingestion increases GH levels as well as exercise so fasting, exercise, and post-exercise protein nutrition should compound the effect) and after 45 minutes or so, take some additional protein as well as some high GI carbohydrates to take advantage of the increased insulin sensitivity and suppress the cortisol. Also after an hour and a half or so, consume a large meal such that there is no caloric deficit
Actually ingesting protein elevates cortisol levels and decreases testosterone according to most studies.

Also exercising after a fast is going to be compromised. It seems that with nutrition people get so caught up on what's right and what's wrong and make things a lot more complicated than they have to be. Eating a balanced diet, exercising and resting well gives you the best of everything. I can understand how people want to search for a nutritional secret to give them an edge but there isn't anything that exciting out there, by focusing on a certain dietary manipulation you tend to ignore something else that's more important. Elite athletes don't worry about things like this.

Here's a balanced view on the issue of IT fasting that I like:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Last edited by lefty; 04-11-2012 at 09:56 AM.
lefty is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-11-2012, 11:05 AM   #9
megavolt
Constantly Shadowboxing
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 75
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefty View Post
Actually ingesting protein elevates cortisol levels and decreases testosterone according to most studies.

Also exercising after a fast is going to be compromised. It seems that with nutrition people get so caught up on what's right and what's wrong and make things a lot more complicated than they have to be. Eating a balanced diet, exercising and resting well gives you the best of everything. I can understand how people want to search for a nutritional secret to give them an edge but there isn't anything that exciting out there, by focusing on a certain dietary manipulation you tend to ignore something else that's more important. Elite athletes don't worry about things like this.

Here's a balanced view on the issue of IT fasting that I like:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
Yep, I've also read that protein consumption raises cortisol levels and lowers free testosterone. Studies have also shown that it also lowers SHBG which binds to free T anyway so it kind of cancels each other out i guess.

I actually read that article yesterday or 2 days back which was pretty interesting. From what I can tell, AA is a respected poster on BB.com so I'm pretty sure he knows his stuff. I'll need to review it more thoroughly later (its like 4 am) but one thing I did notice a few things on the research summary, 1)- that there isn't enough human research on it, 2) - simply exercising produces similar results such as increase insulin sensitivity, elevating BDNF levels, blood lipid and blood pressure benefits, etc dependent on intensity, and 3)- A few of the selected studies lead me to believe his analysis has a slight focus on short-term performance with points highlighted such as muscle protein synthesis, protein degradation during fasting (problem with that is IF aims to do this), school attendance (lol) and others, whereas studies on IF seem to focus on long-term health, neurology, life-expectancy, enhanced resistance to disease etc. The elevated levels of GH, etc apparently are simply there for recovery to counteract the performance drawbacks accumulated during the fasting period.


here's some interesting ones I found

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
megavolt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2012, 12:37 PM   #10
spion
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 693
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

I've read about it and experimented with it. There are several different ways to do it. One can fast for a day (24 hrs) and then return to eating the following day. One can eat dinner, go to bed and then not eat again until the following evening AFTER training. It is, as you mentioned, a way to manipulate the hormones in the system to not only burn fat but to release HGH and a bit of testosterone as well. I read where Ali, (at the time Cassius Clay) said he used to eat only one meal per day AFTER training. He never felt compromised in energy or strength.
spion is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-06-2012, 09:19 AM   #11
Brisbox
newbie
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 16
vCash: 225
Default Re: Intermittent fasting... anyone ever heard of this nutritional methodology?

Probably the best site to visit for fasting - [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

A great book to read is eat stop eat by Brad Pylon(sp)

Both dispell the myths of being able to speed up metabolism by eating small and often meals, there are no medical trials/proof of metabolic speed to back up the statement of "eat little and often you'll drop fat quicker because your metabolisms faster"

your body does not suddenly choose to burn muscle after 3 hours without food, which most people seem to believe

the best way to fast and burn fat/lose excess weight I have found is to eat at a calorie deficit for 8hrs of the day and fast for 16hrs obviously 8ish hrs of your fast will be sleeping and remembering to drink roughly 3litres of water a day this makes sure your body isnt holding onto any excess water.

For actual food I don't really do full paleo because I still eat bread and potatoes but stay away from milk sugar cheese cereals pasta etc

Hope this helps someone it's worth a try if you are trying to drop some weight.
Brisbox is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Boxing Training/Amateur Boxing

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:56 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013