Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied

SuzieQ49 · 11-21-2012, 09:57 PM

Peralta's record just doesn't impress me. Was he more than his record had to offer? A prime Foreman struggling that much to put away Peralta along with his subsequent loss to jimmy young in 77, leads me to believe he would have never been able to handle a highly skilled, iron chinned boxer like Larry Holmes.

Boxed Ears · 11-21-2012, 10:04 PM

Holmes would've been all wrong for George, I think. I think George thought so too. But it didn't have anything to do with the Peralta fight. George hadn't really fought anyone that could season him the way Peralta good. Peralta was a good, good fighter. Savvy, tough, perfect to test a guy like Foreman, coming up. That fight doesn't say too much about George, really. You might as well judge Tyson from Tillis. And Foreman nearly died after Young. I don't know when people are going to start grasping that.

MagnaNasakki · 11-21-2012, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

Holmes would've been all wrong for George, I think. I think George thought so too. But it didn't have anything to do with the Peralta fight. George hadn't really fought anyone that could season him the way Peralta good. Peralta was a good, good fighter. Savvy, tough, perfect to test a guy like Foreman, coming up. That fight doesn't say too much about George, really. You might as well judge Tyson from Tillis. And Foreman nearly died after Young. I don't know when people are going to start grasping that.

I pretty much agree with this.

Competent, crafty trial horses always come along and bother up and coming fighters at some point, its a part of the process.

Tyson and Tillis, Foreman and Peralta, Doug Jones and Ali(Though Jones was better then a trial horse, being a contender in his own right, off and on).

But, Holmes still would have beaten Foreman. The jab, the counter right hands, and the sound lateral movement accompanied with the crazy grit, toughness, and determination seal it.

fistsof steel · 11-21-2012, 10:10 PM

Foreman was a young inexperienced fighter when he fought Peralta,think it was his 9th fight and he was only 21 at the time,in His prime George would have been to strong and Tough for Holmes,Big George suffered one TKO in an 80 Fight career and retired at a ripe old age of 49,definately one of a few ATG Heavyweights in my opinion.!!!!

Boxed Ears · 11-21-2012, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki

I pretty much agree with this.

Competent, crafty trial horses always come along and bother up and coming fighters at some point, its a part of the process.

Tyson and Tillis, Foreman and Peralta, Doug Jones and Ali(Though Jones was better then a trial horse, being a contender in his own right, off and on).

But, Holmes still would have beaten Foreman. The jab, the counter right hands, and the sound lateral movement accompanied with the crazy grit, toughness, and determination seal it.

Aye. And Holmes always wanted that fight very badly. He's still bitter (I know, big surprise, subject considering) about Foreman's success and riches and ranking and the regard for the Moorer win. He wanted Foreman to give him a golden oldies big money showdown, because he figured he had every thing to match up well with him. That fight would've brought good money too. But, I think Foreman knew it wouldn't have done him any good to drop one to another old contender.

MagnaNasakki · 11-21-2012, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

Aye. And Holmes always wanted that fight very badly. He's still bitter (I know, big surprise, subject considering) about Foreman's success and riches and ranking and the regard for the Moorer win. He wanted Foreman to give him a golden oldies big money showdown, because he figured he had every thing to match up well with him. That fight would've brought good money too. But, I think Foreman knew it wouldn't have done him any good.

I'm also reasonably sure that George disliked Larry.

Probably didn't want to do him the favor, he was half the draw.

hookfromhell · 11-21-2012, 10:15 PM

Ive been thinking about the Peralta fight alot lately. Its been on tv weekly
On MSG. Anyway spot on Magna. Tyson didnt look good against Tillis, Bowe
against Tubbs, etc. Foreman vs Holmes is interesting. I think Larry is too slick
to get caught against the ropes Holmes UD. Larry could be stopped but
Foreman wasnt Tyson.

rusak · 11-21-2012, 10:40 PM

Peralta bumaye!

rusak · 11-21-2012, 10:43 PM

Imagine if that was a 200 lb James Toney in there instead of Peralta. Foreman gets viciously clowned, dropped, and stopped. Yeah, I said it.

rusak · 11-21-2012, 11:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fistsof steel

Foreman was a young inexperienced fighter when he fought Peralta,think it was his 9th fight and he was only 21 at the time,in His prime George would have been to strong and Tough for Holmes,Big George suffered one TKO in an 80 Fight career and retired at a ripe old age of 49,definately one of a few ATG Heavyweights in my opinion.!!!!

Yeah, but he fought a lot of cruiserweight bums and avoided good boxers like the plague.

mr. magoo · 11-21-2012, 11:06 PM

Larry Holmes had the pertinent array of skills and essential attributes to defeat George Foreman. But I'd prefer to look at Foreman's bout with Muhammad Ali to confirm this and not his outings with Peralta or Young. It still would have taken a great boxer of exceptional ability and stamina to beat George Foreman, and the said performances were not the best showcase of George's qualities. One of those lackluster displays was a lack of experience issue, while the other had to do with bad preparation poor mental resolve, and managerial issues in his corner ( not to mention, Jimmy Young was actually a hell of a good fighter.)

Bummy Davis · 11-21-2012, 11:15 PM

It cut both ways, George struggled with Peralta in fight one and even in the 2nd fight the ref did George a favor stopping the fight with Peralta doing the rope a dope...Holmes though could be caught with the right hand and George could nail him from round 1-8 but I think after that George starts to gas if Larry makes him fight....I know Larry get stopped a few times in the amateurs and went down vs Snipes and Shavers so George could hurt Larry....Ali made George gas but can Larry fight the same fight as Ali and not get caught or be as defensive as Young without getting hit....George did not want to give Larry the payday because of Larry big mouth and George had more to lose than to gain...George was looking for a big money fight vs Tyson and Holmes had already been blasted out by Mike so George was looking for bigger and better things

The Funny Man 7 · 11-22-2012, 02:45 AM

Yes George struggled a lot here, but as other have said virtually every elite boxer struggles against someone at some point in their ascent. Marciano had Lowry, who for all his quirky ability and survival skills wasn't as credentialed as Peralta. And I think Dempsey's repeated struggles with Willie Meehan are far more damning than Foreman-Peralta if you're going to look at it like that. Throw in Ali vs Jones and Sonny Banks, or Floyd Patterson against Maxim. Those fights are important learning experiences.

The important thing is that Foreman learned his lesson, improved, and then beat Peralta far more decisively and went on to score amazing victories which are more indicative of his historical standing.

And if we're going to tarnish champs based on struggles why not mention Holmes' scare against Witherspoon. In my opinion that fight is more of an indictment on Holmes than Foreman-Peralta, since Holmes was supposed to be within fight or two of his prime, though some will manipulate that timeline to suit their agenda. The bottom line: I don't remember Foreman getting badly rocked while struggling to a controversial decision over a novice with 15/16 fights when he was in his prime.

fistsof steel · 11-27-2012, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7

Yes George struggled a lot here, but as other have said virtually every elite boxer struggles against someone at some point in their ascent. Marciano had Lowry, who for all his quirky ability and survival skills wasn't as credentialed as Peralta. And I think Dempsey's repeated struggles with Willie Meehan are far more damning than Foreman-Peralta if you're going to look at it like that. Throw in Ali vs Jones and Sonny Banks, or Floyd Patterson against Maxim. Those fights are important learning experiences.

The important thing is that Foreman learned his lesson, improved, and then beat Peralta far more decisively and went on to score amazing victories which are more indicative of his historical standing.

And if we're going to tarnish champs based on struggles why not mention Holmes' scare against Witherspoon. In my opinion that fight is more of an indictment on Holmes than Foreman-Peralta, since Holmes was supposed to be within fight or two of his prime, though some will manipulate that timeline to suit their agenda. The bottom line: I don't remember Foreman getting badly rocked while struggling to a controversial decision over a novice with 15/16 fights when he was in his prime.

Great Post.!!!

Unforgiven · 11-27-2012, 05:39 AM

Joe Frazier was world champion and Foreman destroyed him. So what if he struggled with Peralta ? He beat him clear enough.

I think getting knocked down while losing to Jimmy Young is the real blemish on Foreman's record.
But everyone knows that. Foreman went into a deep retirement because of it, or maybe he was already looking to get out of boxing going in to the fight. Either way it was a pitiful performance.

11-21-2012, 09:57 PM	#1
SuzieQ49 Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Boston, Ma Posts: 12,960 vCash: 1000	Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Peralta's record just doesn't impress me. Was he more than his record had to offer? A prime Foreman struggling that much to put away Peralta along with his subsequent loss to jimmy young in 77, leads me to believe he would have never been able to handle a highly skilled, iron chinned boxer like Larry Holmes.
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11-21-2012, 10:04 PM	#2
Boxed Ears Lowering Post Count East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brunoilia, Hehsland Posts: 51,296 vCash: 7500	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Holmes would've been all wrong for George, I think. I think George thought so too. But it didn't have anything to do with the Peralta fight. George hadn't really fought anyone that could season him the way Peralta good. Peralta was a good, good fighter. Savvy, tough, perfect to test a guy like Foreman, coming up. That fight doesn't say too much about George, really. You might as well judge Tyson from Tillis. And Foreman nearly died after Young. I don't know when people are going to start grasping that.
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11-21-2012, 10:10 PM	#4
fistsof steel Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Posts: 1,170 vCash: 500	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Foreman was a young inexperienced fighter when he fought Peralta,think it was his 9th fight and he was only 21 at the time,in His prime George would have been to strong and Tough for Holmes,Big George suffered one TKO in an 80 Fight career and retired at a ripe old age of 49,definately one of a few ATG Heavyweights in my opinion.!!!!
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11-21-2012, 10:15 PM	#7
hookfromhell Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 863 vCash: 427	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Ive been thinking about the Peralta fight alot lately. Its been on tv weekly On MSG. Anyway spot on Magna. Tyson didnt look good against Tillis, Bowe against Tubbs, etc. Foreman vs Holmes is interesting. I think Larry is too slick to get caught against the ropes Holmes UD. Larry could be stopped but Foreman wasnt Tyson.
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11-21-2012, 10:40 PM	#8
rusak Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 550 vCash: 500	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Peralta bumaye!
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11-21-2012, 10:43 PM	#9
rusak Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 550 vCash: 500	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Imagine if that was a 200 lb James Toney in there instead of Peralta. Foreman gets viciously clowned, dropped, and stopped. Yeah, I said it.
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11-21-2012, 11:06 PM	#11
mr. magoo Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Chicago, Illinois USA Posts: 12,517 vCash: 1000	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Larry Holmes had the pertinent array of skills and essential attributes to defeat George Foreman. But I'd prefer to look at Foreman's bout with Muhammad Ali to confirm this and not his outings with Peralta or Young. It still would have taken a great boxer of exceptional ability and stamina to beat George Foreman, and the said performances were not the best showcase of George's qualities. One of those lackluster displays was a lack of experience issue, while the other had to do with bad preparation poor mental resolve, and managerial issues in his corner ( not to mention, Jimmy Young was actually a hell of a good fighter.)
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11-21-2012, 11:15 PM	#12
Bummy Davis Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,192 vCash: 1000	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied It cut both ways, George struggled with Peralta in fight one and even in the 2nd fight the ref did George a favor stopping the fight with Peralta doing the rope a dope...Holmes though could be caught with the right hand and George could nail him from round 1-8 but I think after that George starts to gas if Larry makes him fight....I know Larry get stopped a few times in the amateurs and went down vs Snipes and Shavers so George could hurt Larry....Ali made George gas but can Larry fight the same fight as Ali and not get caught or be as defensive as Young without getting hit....George did not want to give Larry the payday because of Larry big mouth and George had more to lose than to gain...George was looking for a big money fight vs Tyson and Holmes had already been blasted out by Mike so George was looking for bigger and better things
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11-22-2012, 02:45 AM	#13
The Funny Man 7 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: here (duh!) Posts: 3,494 vCash: 1280	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Yes George struggled a lot here, but as other have said virtually every elite boxer struggles against someone at some point in their ascent. Marciano had Lowry, who for all his quirky ability and survival skills wasn't as credentialed as Peralta. And I think Dempsey's repeated struggles with Willie Meehan are far more damning than Foreman-Peralta if you're going to look at it like that. Throw in Ali vs Jones and Sonny Banks, or Floyd Patterson against Maxim. Those fights are important learning experiences. The important thing is that Foreman learned his lesson, improved, and then beat Peralta far more decisively and went on to score amazing victories which are more indicative of his historical standing. And if we're going to tarnish champs based on struggles why not mention Holmes' scare against Witherspoon. In my opinion that fight is more of an indictment on Holmes than Foreman-Peralta, since Holmes was supposed to be within fight or two of his prime, though some will manipulate that timeline to suit their agenda. The bottom line: I don't remember Foreman getting badly rocked while struggling to a controversial decision over a novice with 15/16 fights when he was in his prime.
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11-27-2012, 05:39 AM	#15
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13,142 vCash: 1000	Re: Foreman struggling with Peralta leaves me unsatisfied Joe Frazier was world champion and Foreman destroyed him. So what if he struggled with Peralta ? He beat him clear enough. I think getting knocked down while losing to Jimmy Young is the real blemish on Foreman's record. But everyone knows that. Foreman went into a deep retirement because of it, or maybe he was already looking to get out of boxing going in to the fight. Either way it was a pitiful performance.
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