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Old 12-04-2012, 03:01 AM   #1
wordisbond
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Default 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:17 AM   #2
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

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Originally Posted by wordisbond View Post
I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?
Not around at the time, but find it puzzling none the less
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:37 AM   #3
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

Perhaps???...Senor Pepe has been right all along?
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Old 12-04-2012, 08:47 AM   #4
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

Nat Fleischer hated both of them, but he truly loathed Liston. There was no way that Liston's defeat was not going to be gloated about. And Fleischer was not going to let the fact that someone he also hated beat him, get in the way...

Fleischer was responsible for a lot of good in the sport, but if things did not go his way, all the toys came out the pram, and he held a grudge well too boot.
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Old 12-04-2012, 11:39 AM   #5
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

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Originally Posted by wordisbond View Post
I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?

They simply could n't believe what their eyes saw. Ali outfoxed,outboxed and outfought 'Sonny,the Indestuctable'
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Old 12-04-2012, 03:19 PM   #6
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

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They simply could n't believe what their eyes saw. Ali outfoxed,outboxed and outfought 'Sonny,the Indestuctable'
Always interesting that Clay goes into his "victory dance" before Liston informs the referee he is not coming out of his corner.
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Old 12-04-2012, 04:34 PM   #7
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

It is Ali's best match, in my opinion, considering the level of opposition, manner of victory and the circumstances (blinding).
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:04 PM   #8
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

Scan the pages with the Liston-Clay stuff and post them.
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Old 12-04-2012, 05:23 PM   #9
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

The 'boxing pundits' and 'so-called experts' knew the fight was a hoax.

Sonny Liston was 'not' that bad, and Cassius Clay was 'not' that good.

Ring Magazine wanted to take a 'closer look' at the circumstances, and did
not want to 'shoot' themselves in the foot, by claiming Cassius was great,
in a fight that was eventually found to be 'bizarre' and with strange dealings.

April 1964
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:22 AM   #10
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

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Originally Posted by Joe.Boxer View Post
Scan the pages with the Liston-Clay stuff and post them.
Sorry I would if I can a scanner here.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:26 AM   #11
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

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Originally Posted by TBooze View Post
Nat Fleischer hated both of them, but he truly loathed Liston. There was no way that Liston's defeat was not going to be gloated about. And Fleischer was not going to let the fact that someone he also hated beat him, get in the way...

Fleischer was responsible for a lot of good in the sport, but if things did not go his way, all the toys came out the pram, and he held a grudge well too boot.
Yes, that is what it seemed like. Nothing about Ali's performance at all, they did write about his need for an attitude adjustment because the heavyweight champion of the world needs to carry himself in a certain manner yada yada.
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Old 12-05-2012, 07:12 AM   #12
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

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Originally Posted by Longhhorn71 View Post
Always interesting that Clay goes into his "victory dance" before Liston informs the referee he is not coming out of his corner.
wheres this heading.


the liston corner looked animated and show signs that they may quit. ali starts to shuffle, then the ref turns round. he knows he has won
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:11 AM   #13
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

Everybody knew that Sonny Liston should had gotten the 'most' credit in that
'fake fight'.

His performance was the most convincing.

Cassius, on the other hand, had done very little since the fast flurry in the
beginning of Round 3.

Both fighters followed the 'script' fairly well, but Cassius was supposed to go
down at the end of Round 4.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:33 AM   #14
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

they were old fashioned and set in their ways - ali was a new type of heavyweight with a mouth they didn't like and underestimated. after the cooper knockdown they naturally thought that liston would kill him as soon as he landed a punch. clay was reaching his full maturity and starting to peak. the cooper knockdown was a big wake up call for the over****y clay.
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Old 12-05-2012, 01:52 PM   #15
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Default Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

Senor Pepe - Re Cassius having done Little since the fast flurry at the beginning of round 3 - I seem to recall that Cassius, Having come through the earlier "Burning Eyes" episode, had a very good 6th round, it seemed to be a softening up round, certainly of a mentally deflating Liston...with the promise of more to come in the 7th..and with the 8th round prediction looking ever more achievable... Cassius's continued survival and indeed growing confidence was probably a big factor in Sonny's fold...i think he did indeed do something after the 3rd
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