1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston

wordisbond · 12-04-2012, 03:01 AM

I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?

The Spider · 12-04-2012, 03:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordisbond

I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?

Not around at the time, but find it puzzling none the less

PhillyPhan69 · 12-04-2012, 08:37 AM

Perhaps???...Senor Pepe has been right all along?

TBooze · 12-04-2012, 08:47 AM

Nat Fleischer hated both of them, but he truly loathed Liston. There was no way that Liston's defeat was not going to be gloated about. And Fleischer was not going to let the fact that someone he also hated beat him, get in the way...

Fleischer was responsible for a lot of good in the sport, but if things did not go his way, all the toys came out the pram, and he held a grudge well too boot.

Stevie G · 12-04-2012, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wordisbond

I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?

They simply could n't believe what their eyes saw. Ali outfoxed,outboxed and outfought 'Sonny,the Indestuctable'

Longhhorn71 · 12-04-2012, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stevie G

They simply could n't believe what their eyes saw. Ali outfoxed,outboxed and outfought 'Sonny,the Indestuctable'

Always interesting that Clay goes into his "victory dance" before Liston informs the referee he is not coming out of his corner.

Shake · 12-04-2012, 04:34 PM

It is Ali's best match, in my opinion, considering the level of opposition, manner of victory and the circumstances (blinding).

Joe.Boxer · 12-04-2012, 05:04 PM

Scan the pages with the Liston-Clay stuff and post them.

Senor Pepe' · 12-04-2012, 05:23 PM

The 'boxing pundits' and 'so-called experts' knew the fight was a hoax.

Sonny Liston was 'not' that bad, and Cassius Clay was 'not' that good.

Ring Magazine wanted to take a 'closer look' at the circumstances, and did
not want to 'shoot' themselves in the foot, by claiming Cassius was great,
in a fight that was eventually found to be 'bizarre' and with strange dealings.

April 1964

wordisbond · 12-05-2012, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe.Boxer

Scan the pages with the Liston-Clay stuff and post them.

Sorry I would if I can a scanner here.

wordisbond · 12-05-2012, 01:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TBooze

Nat Fleischer hated both of them, but he truly loathed Liston. There was no way that Liston's defeat was not going to be gloated about. And Fleischer was not going to let the fact that someone he also hated beat him, get in the way...

Fleischer was responsible for a lot of good in the sport, but if things did not go his way, all the toys came out the pram, and he held a grudge well too boot.

Yes, that is what it seemed like. Nothing about Ali's performance at all, they did write about his need for an attitude adjustment because the heavyweight champion of the world needs to carry himself in a certain manner yada yada.

Vantage_West · 12-05-2012, 07:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longhhorn71

Always interesting that Clay goes into his "victory dance" before Liston informs the referee he is not coming out of his corner.

wheres this heading.

the liston corner looked animated and show signs that they may quit. ali starts to shuffle, then the ref turns round. he knows he has won

Senor Pepe' · 12-05-2012, 08:11 AM

Everybody knew that Sonny Liston should had gotten the 'most' credit in that
'fake fight'.

His performance was the most convincing.

Cassius, on the other hand, had done very little since the fast flurry in the
beginning of Round 3.

Both fighters followed the 'script' fairly well, but Cassius was supposed to go
down at the end of Round 4.

groove · 12-05-2012, 09:33 AM

they were old fashioned and set in their ways - ali was a new type of heavyweight with a mouth they didn't like and underestimated. after the cooper knockdown they naturally thought that liston would kill him as soon as he landed a punch. clay was reaching his full maturity and starting to peak. the cooper knockdown was a big wake up call for the overcocky clay.

AREA 53 · 12-05-2012, 01:52 PM

Senor Pepe - Re Cassius having done Little since the fast flurry at the beginning of round 3 - I seem to recall that Cassius, Having come through the earlier "Burning Eyes" episode, had a very good 6th round, it seemed to be a softening up round, certainly of a mentally deflating Liston...with the promise of more to come in the 7th..and with the 8th round prediction looking ever more achievable... Cassius's continued survival and indeed growing confidence was probably a big factor in Sonny's fold...i think he did indeed do something after the 3rd

12-04-2012, 03:01 AM	#1
wordisbond Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 617 vCash: 1000	1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston I just received the April 1964 issue of Ring Magazine ("I Am King") with Ali on the cover, which was right after he won the heavyweight championship. There are two articles on the fight, and I was surprised that there was absolutely ZERO credit given to Ali for the win. Both articles pretty much put all the blame on Sonny Liston for losing the title. Reasons included Sonny hurting his shoulder in camp, being overweight, taking the fight very lightly, and being close to 40 years old (speculation). Before the fight, Liston was a 7 to 1 favorite, 44 out of 47 expert picked Liston, and this writer called Ali's win the biggest upset in heavyweight history. Ali did win fighter of the month honours though. Any input from those around at the time?
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12-04-2012, 08:37 AM	#3
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,710 vCash: 1000	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston Perhaps???...Senor Pepe has been right all along?
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12-04-2012, 08:47 AM	#4
TBooze Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: South of London Posts: 9,771 vCash: 1	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston Nat Fleischer hated both of them, but he truly loathed Liston. There was no way that Liston's defeat was not going to be gloated about. And Fleischer was not going to let the fact that someone he also hated beat him, get in the way... Fleischer was responsible for a lot of good in the sport, but if things did not go his way, all the toys came out the pram, and he held a grudge well too boot.
Top

12-04-2012, 04:34 PM	#7
Shake Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 2,328 vCash: 75	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston It is Ali's best match, in my opinion, considering the level of opposition, manner of victory and the circumstances (blinding).
Top

12-04-2012, 05:04 PM	#8
Joe.Boxer Chinchecker ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2011 Posts: 4,427 vCash: 240	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston Scan the pages with the Liston-Clay stuff and post them.
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12-04-2012, 05:23 PM	#9
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston The 'boxing pundits' and 'so-called experts' knew the fight was a hoax. Sonny Liston was 'not' that bad, and Cassius Clay was 'not' that good. Ring Magazine wanted to take a 'closer look' at the circumstances, and did not want to 'shoot' themselves in the foot, by claiming Cassius was great, in a fight that was eventually found to be 'bizarre' and with strange dealings. April 1964
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12-05-2012, 08:11 AM	#13
Senor Pepe' Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,734 vCash: 500	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston Everybody knew that Sonny Liston should had gotten the 'most' credit in that 'fake fight'. His performance was the most convincing. Cassius, on the other hand, had done very little since the fast flurry in the beginning of Round 3. Both fighters followed the 'script' fairly well, but Cassius was supposed to go down at the end of Round 4.
Top

12-05-2012, 09:33 AM	#14
groove Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 1,024 vCash: 1000	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston they were old fashioned and set in their ways - ali was a new type of heavyweight with a mouth they didn't like and underestimated. after the cooper knockdown they naturally thought that liston would kill him as soon as he landed a punch. clay was reaching his full maturity and starting to peak. the cooper knockdown was a big wake up call for the overcocky clay.
Top

12-05-2012, 01:52 PM	#15
AREA 53 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,038 vCash: 1000	Re: 1964 Ring Magazine- No credit to Ali after beating Liston Senor Pepe - Re Cassius having done Little since the fast flurry at the beginning of round 3 - I seem to recall that Cassius, Having come through the earlier "Burning Eyes" episode, had a very good 6th round, it seemed to be a softening up round, certainly of a mentally deflating Liston...with the promise of more to come in the 7th..and with the 8th round prediction looking ever more achievable... Cassius's continued survival and indeed growing confidence was probably a big factor in Sonny's fold...i think he did indeed do something after the 3rd
Top