Is Roberto Duran a top-10 All Time Great?

[orriray59]

Top 10 lock, for me. No doubt.

[KuRuPT]

Top 10 Lock for sure. Where he places within that, is dependent on the mood I'm in.

how on God's green earth could somebody have him outside the top 20 or 25 is beyond me.

[Stevie G]

Originally Posted by Seamus

I am interested in thoughts here regarding this question.

Definitely an all time great. I have him in the 6 - 10 category.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by KuRuPT

Top 10 Lock for sure. Where he places within that, is dependent on the mood I'm in.

how on God's green earth could somebody have him outside the top 20 or 25 is beyond me.

And his two most infamous detractors on this forum have both conceded he's probably within the Top 25 in this very thread.

So who's part of the DKSAB Crew?

[redrooster]

depends on who u have in your top ten.

the way i see it, he gained experience at 135 but none of those challengers were anything big. everyone from Lampkin to Fernandez. In fact, Bizarro was about the worst challenger I've ever seen fight for a title.

His opposition improved once he moved up but unfortunately he slowed with age & added weight. Too erratic at higher weights but I ca see he slowed like everyone else.

happened to Ali. happened to Hagler. Happened to Liston. Happened to DLH. Happened to Camacho. happened to Hearns. Happened to Roy Jones

Personally I didnt like him at 154 which is too much weight for him to carry. the hagler fight did wonders for his reputation and made him look like a superman. but then came crashing don in his next fight, an almost too easy KO loss to Hitman

[PhillyPhan69]

I would say he is a lock for top 20, perhaps even 15, which if I remember correct I had him in the 11-15 range myself....Some could depend on where you rank him as a light weight....He is a narrow consensus # 1 over, B. leonard & j. Gans....If you have him rated as the top LW, combined w/ his other accomplishments you can make a legitimate top 10 case for him....

I give a slight edge to Leonard and go back and forth between Gans and Duran....So for me he falls just short.....Anything outside of top 20 I would like to here explained, not sure I understand the reasoning behind that?

[lufcrazy]

I used to always say yes.

Now I'm not so sure.

I have him number 2 at lw clearly behind Leonard. But then he has one of the greatest victories in history plus top class victories over palomino, Cuevas, Barkley and Moore.

His titles are a bit misleading and had he beaten Benitez, hearns, Hagler or Sumbu I'd say absolutely.

Top 20 lock. Top 10 debatable.

[Senya13]

Originally Posted by McGrain

Nonsense. Ali has Foreman (top 10) Liston (top 10) Frazier (top 10) and a beautiful raft of contenders bouted by in-betweeners like Norton and Patterson. He defeated all of these names in series.

The heavyweight division was always awful. Foreman was somewhere at the level of Dal Hawkins as a fighter. Liston is grossly overrated, he looks good on film, but his achievements are rather poor and he struggled against even mediocre opposition; maybe Jack Blackburn level of fighter. Frazier beat Ali the first time, the only fight that mattered between them. He is also overrated, because he only had one meaningful win - first fight with Ali. Other than that, he beat fighters of Kid McPartland or Dave Holly level. Norton, I'm tired to even speak about him. He was a journeyman of Henry Cooper level, basically. Somewhere between mediocre and good. Patterson - was past prime and a cripple when Ali beat him. If you look at either Gans' or Leonard's eras, they were ten times deeper and richer with talent than Ali's epoch at heavyweight.

[McGrain]

Originally Posted by Senya13

The heavyweight division was always awful.

It's not as deep as lightweight, but writing it of as "awful" is obviously a bit silly. But your viewpoint on that division probably explains the difference in our perceptions.

I disagree with most of your other opinions which are pretty extreme in many cases.

[LittleRed]

I think we can all agree that the man deserves a mention.

[Hands of Iron]

Pachilles has him in his top ten last I saw.

[Senya13]

This is not just my viewpoint, this is an opinion shared by a whole lot of contemporary (for each era) experts. I pointed out before, that Ken Norton, for example, was seen as the 5th worst heavyweight titlist of all time in 1981. Jimmy Ellis, who is also often brought up as one of the better contenders, was voted 7th worst, Ernie Terrell - 8th, Leon Spinks - 4th. Ie, 4 titlists from Ali's career were voted among the 9 worst of all time. A fair assessment, in my opinion.
Start reading Ring magazines, years by year, decade by decade, they are moaning that the heavyweight division is bad-bad-bad.

[Hands of Iron]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Barney Ross

Originally Posted by the cobra

#13.

Aw rite.

Here's what the 'experts' believed back in 2006, per IBRO:

Updated September 2006**
1. Sugar Ray Robinson
2. Harry Greb
3. Henry Armstrong
4. Muhammad Ali (Tie)
4. Joe Louis (Tie)
6. Sam Langford
7. Roberto Duran
8. Benny Leonard
9. Willie Pep
10. Bob Fitzsimmons
11. Joe Gans
12. Ezzard Charles (Tie)
12. Sugar Ray Leonard (Tie)
14. Jimmy Wilde
15. Eder Jofre
16. Mickey Walker
17. Archie Moore
118. Jack Dempsey
119. Jack Johnson
20. Gene Tunney

Just missing the cut: Stanley Ketchel, Barbados Joe Walcott, Rocky Marciano, Tony Canzoneri, Barney Ross, Ike Williams, George Dixon, Sandy Saddler, Roy Jones Jr., and Larry Holmes.

[the cobra]

Originally Posted by LittleRed

I think we can all agree that the man deserves a mention.

Originally posted by Hands of Iron
Pachilles has him in his top ten last I saw.

"You wanna know why I fought? The real reason? Listen, I didn't fight for no glory, meng. Not for fame, not for country, not for money...ok a little bit for money. But the main thing? That's what you want to know, eh? I'll tell you why: All I ever wanted was a mention. Just a mention, meng. That's all - just a mention."

- Roberto Duran









You got one, buddy! You got one!

[the cobra]

Originally Posted by Hands of Iron

Aw rite.

Here's what the 'experts' believed back in 2006, per IBRO:


12. Ezzard Charles (Tie)[/i]

Those sick bastards!