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Old 02-05-2008, 06:28 PM   #16
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Assassin


It took him six to get rid of Layne, eight to get rid of 1,023 year old Louis, thirteen for Walcott [after being outboxed], eleven for LaStarza and goes the distance with Charles in the first fight but he's going to KO a real prime heavyweight like Mike who is much bigger, stronger and faster than those guys in five? Get real.
Yeah, I know. The haters and fanboys don't get it.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:34 PM   #17
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
And I dont understand the rosie notice that prime Tyson was invincible.
I don't believe either, personally. You're never going to see me argue that Tyson's on some pedestal.
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:34 PM   #18
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Tyson is bigger faster and stronger than anyone Marciano ever faced. Sure Marciano was tough and duribble and underated as a boxer but Tyson would stop him within five rounds.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:25 PM   #19
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Speed kills. We all know it. Tyson was just too fast and powerful period. Tyson in his prime threw very fast powerful combinations, 3 and 4 at a time, not the one -and -a -two combos that fighters in Rocky's time threw. Rocky would be facing a completely different animal in Mike. Nothing like the fighters he was accustomed to fighting who were much slower and less powerful. And let's face it, Rocky never faced an opponent with Tysons power, ever. Walcott was a good puncher, so was Moore, but they could'nt match Tyson in the power or speed department. And if those two could deck Rocky and hurt him then Mike could also, and probably finish him as well.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:21 PM   #20
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

If speed kills, It sure didnt help Charles, Walcott, and Archie Moore avoid the beatings that were waiting for them.
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:23 PM   #21
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Tough fight, but late KO for Tyson.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:41 AM   #22
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by radianttwilight
Marciano gets beaten down early. Marciano is one of my favorite heavyweights, but he has neither the size nor the style to beat Tyson. Among ALL the modern heavyweight champions, I think Tyson could've benefitted the most by having some <200lb guys to feast on. It's a shame he never got any of them.

Upon further investigation, I came upon this fact - from his first title fight (Berbick's WBC) to his retirement, his lightest opponent was none other than former lightheavy Michael Spinks, who still managed to weigh in at 212lbs, whom he destroyed in 91 seconds, I think?

I highly doubt that anyone smaller than prime Tyson would beat him, much less somebody who weighed in at 185 (giving up a full thirty pounds) and had a come-forward brawler/slugger style.
Good post.

I know size isn't everything but Mike was roughly Rocky's height, with 30 additional pounds and much quicker hands.
Rocky's innate toughness and ruggedness coupled with his awkwardness and lack of height would keep him in the fight for a few rounds, but I can't see him dealing with Tyson's extraordinary blend of speed and power.
Tyson stops him in the early to middle (2-6)rounds.

Sorry Rock.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:34 AM   #23
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Assassin


It took him six to get rid of Layne, eight to get rid of 1,023 year old Louis, thirteen for Walcott [after being outboxed], eleven for LaStarza and goes the distance with Charles in the first fight but he's going to KO a real prime heavyweight like Mike who is much bigger, stronger and faster than those guys in five? Get real.
You picked tyson in 4??? Fanboy!!! Tyson couldn't drop mJourneyman Tillis...couldn't stop the great talent in Mitch Green....Tyson got dropped and demolished by medocrity in Douglas...wait untill he meets a real fighter!!! What are you in high school and never seen any of these people. Tyson gets destroyed by just about every top 10 ATG (I can't find him a win there to be honest!)
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:53 AM   #24
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

I'm surprised so many have picked Tyson by early KO.

No, actually I'm not surprised. Tyson's always been a big favourite round here.

When two short-armed punchers collide head on, I would always pick the guy with more toughness and proven ability to win tough fights and get off the deck to win, and that's Rocky.

If Tyson knocks Rocky down 3 or 4 times Rocky's still gonna be in the fight, and he's gonna be hitting and hurting Tyson.
This isn't rose-tinted fantasy, it's the reality of the situation. These guys would be on top of each other, head-on, BOTH would get hit, and hit HARD.
I noticed that Tyson became a lesser fighter when guys would hit him back and hurt him. But when Rocky's hurt he ups his game.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:17 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Sonny's jab I dont think Marciano gets knocked out early, that's just crazy talk to me. Marciano was always in such terrific condition, and had awesome recuperative powers and determination, I cant see him getting knocked out. Maybe late in a fight, but not early.
Vs slightly past their prime, sub 200 pound heavies who hit on Walcott' Charles' or Moore's level, I agree with you. Rocky is not going out early, though he was in some trouble vs Walcott in round one. However, Tyson hits much harder than these three and each of the three men really tested Rocky's reserves.

Rocky was not a fast starter in his title fights. He took on average a shade over nine rounds to win. Could Rocky survive Tysonís early onslaught? There is no doubt Tyson speed would beat Marciano to the punch, and in his prime Tyson could deliver powerful combinations and had a pretty good defense too. The uppercut and hooks to the body is the best weapon vs a crouching type of stance, and Tyson was simply great with body shots and uppercuts. Marciano swong and missed often, and Tyson could coutner him.


If they meet in their primes ( Which for Tyson was 1986-1988 ) I think Tyson winís. Maybe not in round 1 or 2 two, but perhaps rounds 3-6.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:50 AM   #26
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Tyson TKO5. Too much power, size and speed for Dempsey to overcome.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:54 AM   #27
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Liston_Tyson
Ok Fonzy, riddle me this. You pick two fights where, with Tillis, he wanted to get rounds in, and with Green, well Green RAN the entire fight. Also you choose a declining post-Rooney Tyson. Try the on that destroyed Spinks or KO'd Larry Holmes or Trevor Berbick. No ****ing straight forward fighter beats prime (1986-1989) Tyson. You are also underrating Tyson's very own Iron Chin. Tyson beats Dempsey, Rock, Louis, Johnson, Tunney, Walcott, Charles, etc...NO HW in that era beats Mike.
Does your Mommy know that you are skipping school???
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:55 AM   #28
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Mendoza
Vs slightly past their prime, sub 200 pound heavies who hit on Walcott' Charles' or Moore's level, I agree with you. Rocky is not going out early, though he was in some trouble vs Walcott in round one. However, Tyson hits much harder than these three and each of the three men really tested Rocky's reserves.

Rocky was not a fast starter in his title fights. He took on average a shade over nine rounds to win. Could Rocky survive Tysonís early onslaught? There is no doubt Tyson speed would beat Marciano to the punch, and in his prime Tyson could deliver powerful combinations and had a pretty good defense too. The uppercut and hooks to the body is the best weapon vs a crouching type of stance, and Tyson was simply great with body shots and uppercuts. Marciano swong and missed often, and Tyson could coutner him.


If they meet in their primes ( Which for Tyson was 1986-1988 ) I think Tyson winís. Maybe not in round 1 or 2 two, but perhaps rounds 3-6.
I think Marciano's power gets him out of trouble. It's as simple as that. He's going to hit Tyson, and not just once. And after a few rounds Tyson's going to be very uncomfortable. Tyson cant hook Marciano's body without being in range for one of Rocky's shots. And Rocky had the awkward lean-back-duck-low-lurch-forward stuff, (some of his unorthodox defensive moves are actually impossible to describe in words), and he's not open for many uppercuts. And Rocky threw punches that Tyson's lateral slipping bob-and-weave defense was not designed to avoid.

I dont think Tyson's style was suited as well for shorter, lower, crowding fighters, I think Tyson might get pushed on to the backfoot often, butted, ruffled.
Marciano had "no style" so he'd just do what comes natural.

Tyson was a bit of a front-runner, and often looking to the referee (even in his prime), he fought rough but didn't like it thrown back at him. He had mental weaknesses.
I dont see him beating Marciano in a million years.

But, hey, I'm in the minority here.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:03 AM   #29
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

I can see the logic behind your post SJ, but I don't think it would get to that stage. Tyson would land early and most likely hurt Marciano, badly too- I just can't see Rocky weathering the storm.

He had tremendous fighting heart, but would be overwhelmed by the power and volume of Tyson's assults. He's likely be stopped on cuts approaching the mid-rounds.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:22 AM   #30
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Holmes' Jab
I can see the logic behind your post SJ, but I don't think it would get to that stage. Tyson would land early and most likely hurt Marciano, badly too- I just can't see Rocky weathering the storm.

He had tremendous fighting heart, but would be overwhelmed by the power and volume of Tyson's assults. He's likely be stopped on cuts approaching the mid-rounds.
Lesser fighters than Marciano weathered Tyson's early onslaught.
Thomas went 6, Ruddock 12, Bruno 5, Ribalta 10, Biggs 7, even guys like Mike Jameson and Green soaked up a lot of Tyson's best shots. And some of these guy didn't even believe they could win !!
They didn't all "just clinch" either.

I just dont see a guy like Marciano, with his legendary conditioning, self-belief and recuperative powers and toughness, not to mention his awkwardness and crowding style (that would break Tyson's rhythm), being blasted out early.

Lots of you guys are saying it, but I just dont see it.

Tyson slowed down after 2 or 3 rounds, and Marciano would be strong enough to cope and up the pace after that.
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