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Old 02-06-2008, 07:03 PM   #46
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Bokaj
He didn't look that bad when he fought Bruno, that's mostly a re-construction afterwards to excuse Tyson's loss to Douglas. Sure, Bruno wasn't his greatest fight, but neither was his fight against Bonecrusher Smith. The thing is no one was even close to suggest Tyson was past it after either one of these fights, it's only after the Douglas fight this reasoning has come into being.

He was probably a bit comfortable and overconfident against both Bruno and Douglas, but that's the case for most champions that enjoy that kind of superiorty in his division. Again, Ali was underprepared, overconfident AND past his prime when facing Norton, but still made a fight of it. Despite meeting maybe his most difficult opponent and suffering a broken jaw early on. See the difference?
Ali trained a lot harder even for Norton than Tyson did for Douglas. The difference between the Tyson of the Spinks fight and the Tyson of the Douglas fight is greater than the difference between the 67 Ali and the Ali that lost to Norton.

Tyson won pretty much every round against Smith who was a champ at the time so that's a good win. He didn't do it looking spectacular but that was because Smith decided to clinch at every opportunity.
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Old 02-06-2008, 07:50 PM   #47
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Tony Tubbs pretty much won Round 1 by staying on the outside but, once he decided to fight Tyson, crowd him and make it a punch-out, Tyson proved he could be brutal inside and crushed him within the end of the second round. And Tubbs was a strong, determined man that Tokyo afternoon.

Tyson knew all the gimmicks (he studied the film) and had better power and variety with both hands, not to mention speed. Marciano would be too slow and predictable.

Of course, the great Marciano never lost, but he never faced a Tyson coming up to take the title. The enigma of Tyson is, with extraordinary talent, preparation and savvy, he conquered his Everest very quickly and, three years later, was more interested in things like fornicating and, like so many who reach the top (the Beatles, Britney [ugh!], to name a couple), simply lost the fire and began to drift. But a Tyson motivated to make Cus' dream come true is kryptonite to the wade-in Marciano.
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Old 02-06-2008, 08:42 PM   #48
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Florida boy
no, he didnt, his defense was offense, thats why he was outboxed and battered on more then one occasion. Tyson all night long.

The only guy to relly out box and batterd Marciano, Was Joe Walcott in the first fight, the other fights Marciano handed out one sided beatings. With Charles 1, they both batterd each other, but Charles did not out box the Rock.
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:13 PM   #49
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Sonny's jab
People in his own time didn't "get Rocky" either. He had a crude, ugly, awkward style. Many "refined" boxers tried to exploit this, but they just couldn't figure him out once the bell rang, they left the ring not only hurting but often admitting that he "out-thought" them in there, as well as having out-fought them.

Marciano didn't care who he was fighting, he liked to know nothing about his opponents, because he didn't want expect anything in particular, he was prepared for anything and everything.

I think his low-crouching uneven tempo fighting, with unorthodox punching from weird angles, would be a nightmare for Tyson.
Intelligent post
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:24 PM   #50
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Tyson had trouble with guys that took his best and fired back, I think Tyson would also be surprised that Marciano was not so easy to hit without getting hit back. I see this fight vs both in there primes going into the 10th rd with Marciano getting stronger and Tyson getting discourgaged and taking the count as he did in fights vs Williams,Mcbride and Holyfield. Intestanal fortitude and mental strength were Marciano's gifts and they would bring out the opposite in Tyson
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:48 PM   #51
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Tyson easy KO...size,speed, skill's....
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Old 02-06-2008, 09:52 PM   #52
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Dempsey1238
At age 24, I still dont buy the Tyson was shot at 24 thing.
he wasn't shot but he was going downhill as a fighter. After the Spniks fight, he dropped Rooney, and his skills started to deteriorate. Just watch any fight pre-spinks and any afterwards and the difference is quite obvious.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:33 PM   #53
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Bokaj
This thread has probably been done earlier, but I haven't seen it so I'm interested in your views.

Tyson had superior speed, power and technique, while Marciano was a superior in-fighter and had vastly superior stamina and will IMO.

My take is that Rocky would win if he could take it into the later rounds, but I don't think he would succeed with that. Surely, a guy who was floored early by both Walcott and Moore would be KO'd or TKO'd by such a vicious puncher and finisher that Tyson was in his prime. If he could take into the later rounds, though, I think he would eventually wear Tyson down and inflict some bad damage in close on his way to a KO-win. At least if it was over 15 rounds.

Your views?
You start out saying "Tyson had superiour power and technique." Accoording to you maybe, but that is not a fact.

You are not asking a question with your post, you're dicking people around. Go dick yourself around.
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Old 02-06-2008, 10:36 PM   #54
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Marciano may have hit harder. Tyson threw better in combos, Marciano threw more, and at better pace. Both had good skills, Marciano gets my edge there. Stamina goes to Marciano, but in head to head match, it may not matter. It would not go long, although if it stays a slugfest past a few, at fast pace, Marciano gets bigger edge. I pick Marciano, but it is no roll over.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:47 PM   #55
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Hank
Marciano may have hit harder. Tyson threw better in combos, Marciano threw more, and at better pace. Both had good skills, Marciano gets my edge there. Stamina goes to Marciano, but in head to head match, it may not matter. It would not go long, although if it stays a slugfest past a few, at fast pace, Marciano gets bigger edge. I pick Marciano, but it is no roll over.
I agree, Tyson has a round or two chance to end it. The only problem for Tyson? He can't hit hard enough, even in combination, to take out Marciano in 1 or 2.

Rocky starches Tyson's fag ass in the fifth round after grinning at a couple of Tyson combos.
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Old 02-07-2008, 01:53 AM   #56
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by RoccoMarciano
I agree, Tyson has a round or two chance to end it. The only problem for Tyson? He can't hit hard enough, even in combination, to take out Marciano in 1 or 2.

Rocky starches Tyson's fag ass in the fifth round after grinning at a couple of Tyson combos.
I love the Rock, but no way is he just going to shrug off Tyson's best punches. No-one ever did, not for a sustained period anyway.

Marciano poses certain stylistic problems for Tyson, but so too does Tyson for Marciano. Tyson's handspeed will give him the opportunity to counter Rocky when he gets sloppy and starts throwing those looping right hands. Moore did it for a spell, and Tyson almost certainly will.
Only Tyson is much quicker, bigger, and stronger than Moore, and hits substantially harder.

Rocky will be in Tyson's face for as long as the fight lasts. He lacks a world-class jab (actually he lacked a jab full stop) and probably doesn't have the strength to outmuscle Tyson and walk him backward like Holyfield did.
Cuts almost undoubtedly will be a factor too.
I just can't see how Rocky can win.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:10 AM   #57
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

Even the people who could take Tyson's punches suffered badly from them.

Tyson smashed Green's face apart with no gloves.

With gloves he broke a bunch of his teeth out of his mouth.
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Old 02-07-2008, 02:11 AM   #58
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Bokaj
I don't buy that Tysons' prime ended right before the Douglas fight. It's too convenient and it's just a lame excuse IMO. No one thought he was past his prime right before the fight, that talk only started when it turned out he could be outclassed by a good, but by no means great, fighter. He had had personal problems for years by that point. Actually according to some people those poblems provided the fury he wented in destroying Spinks. The fact his personal problems have been used to explain both his best and his worst perfomance in the 80's just goes to show how unreliable explainition it is.

Tyson wasn't at his sharpest against Douglas, but he was by no means past his prime. Compare that fight with Ali's first fight against Norton, where he was poorly prepared as well, but also several years past his prime and suffered a broken jaw early on, but still made his perhaps most difficult opponent work for his victory.

Actaully, the weaknesses that Douglas exploited was already showing in Tyson's fight against Tony Tucker. And if Tucker hadn't hurt his hand in that fight Tyson might have lost that one too. So no more excuses! Tyson was outclassed by a not too impressive boxer when still in his prime. That's always gonna count against him for everyone but the nuthuggers. Easy as that.
Sure he was still in his prime. What he was, was woefully unprepared for the Douglas fight. You look at the fight and tell me it's the same guy who beat Spinks, Biggs, Holmes etc.

The personal problems outside the ring definitely played it's part in his overall decline. I don't care who you are, eventually all that turmoil, self-inflicted or otherwise, is going to catch up with you.

Rooney leaving (or rather, being booted out) certainly didn't help either.
Look at Tyson's style in '88 compared to say, in 1991. Almost a completely different guy in there. Certainly the mentality was different.
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Old 02-07-2008, 04:30 AM   #59
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Hank
You start out saying "Tyson had superiour power and technique." Accoording to you maybe, but that is not a fact.

You are not asking a question with your post, you're dicking people around. Go dick yourself around.
I end the sentence with "IMO", which is an abbrevation of "in my opinion". Clear things up for you?
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Old 02-07-2008, 05:58 AM   #60
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Default Re: Tyson vs Marciano in their respective primes

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Originally Posted by Liston_Tyson
Dude, all ya'll saying Rock would "overcome the storm" are ignornant.
No, I dont think I'm being ignorant. It's just my opinion. I've made about three or four detailed posts, that go into my own stylistic analysis of how I see the fight.
I have faith in Marciano overcoming Tyson's early onslaught - as several other fighters did - and fighting back, AND having enough left to start to make inroads when Tyson slows down.

Quote:
In his Rooney-trained prime, Tyson never was frustrated. He said it best after the Mitch Green fight, "I love going rounds, I have fun in there, it's great to get a fight where I actually have to fight." Or when he said "If there's 12 or 15 rounds, it dont matter cause eventually, I'll catch them."
But even Tyson's biggest fans should acknowledge that Tyson slowed down gradually after the first 2 or 3 rounds, sometimes after 2 rounds. Look at the Thomas fight, the Tucker fight (two of his best fights, two of his best opponents). Against Thomas he comes out fierce in round 1, but by round 3 or 4 he's doing less than Thomas. Tyson's fast starts meant he often had to make a gear adjustment when guys didn't fall quick, and often that meant that he slowed down and looked predictable in some rounds. Let's not pretend that he was like the first round in every round.

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Rocky didnt have the chin to trade with Mike, yes he had an A+ chin, but who had the power in those days of Tyson?? No one. Tyson would have a field day with Marciano. To skilled, he would bob and weeve all night while constantly landing at will and probley cutting both eyes and cracking some ribs in the process. The fights like Boncrusher Smith and Tony Tubbs was Mike getting rounds in while the others just clintched at every oppourtunity. Tyson beat Rocky 100% of the time
That's your opinion.
I've covered how I think their styles would mesh in other posts.
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