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Old 12-09-2012, 10:37 AM   #256
Loudon
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by general zod View Post
Jones was lying when he said he couldn't do any business with King
1: He wanted to fight Tito when he moved up to smw, after the mw tournament
2: He was prepared to fight Hopkins in 02
3:He fought John Ruiz
4:He fought Tito in 07

ALL of the guys above were Don King fighters. King was desperate to get back on to HBO who at the point had blacklisted him. He would of been more than prepared to negotiate a deal with Jones to get a fight with either Liles or Benn. For the record Liles never blames King, but points the finger squarely at Jones and for good reason
I know Roy has used King a few times in his career, King is great at what he does, but Roy was wary of him. I've seen a video of Roy saying "He can make you a lot of money, but he can take a lot off you too."

Roy didn't say he couldn't do any business with him, but while he was at 168 he didn't want to be tied to him.

We know from the great links that you've provided that Don wanted options. Maybe Roy would have been better agreeing to it? But at the time he didn't want to be tied in.

In the Documentary Beyond the Glory, Levin says that in his opinion it was a mistake for Roy not to tie in with promoter.

Roy always tried to do things his own way. Like you said in a previous thread, there were advantages and disadvantages with it. In the end he made more money, but I think it halted his progression and cost him opportunities to fight good opponents, especially at 160.

Last edited by Loudon; 12-09-2012 at 02:46 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:45 AM   #257
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Littles was a talented fighter who had beaten Jones during the amateurs. His only two losses at smw were to two of the best smws, which a lot of fighters openly avoided. He was more deserving of a shot that the likes of Lucas and Pazienza
He was a good fighter and I respect your opinion. I'm not saying he wasn't worthy, I was just asking Bat if he thought he was.

Again, out of the six fighters that I've mentioned Littles wasn't one of them.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:50 AM   #258
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
I know Roy has used King a few times in his career, King is great at what he does, but Roy was wary of him. I've seen a video of Roy saying "He can make you a lot of money, but he can take a lot off you too."

Roy didn't say he couldn't do any business with him, but while he was at 168 he didn't want to be tied to him.
He was prepared to deal with him at 175 and hw, but not 168? That makes no sense.
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If Jones Jr is successful in defending his titles against Julio Gonzalez this weekend at the Staples Center in Los Angeles, he will then pursue a fight with WBA middleweight champion Felix “Tito” Trinidad, if the Puerto Rican is successful in defeating WBC/IBF middleweight champion Bernard Hopkins and becoming the undisputed middleweight champion in September.

“I think the fight was a very makeable fight six months ago and three months ago, but now, all eyes are on Trinidad. It’s almost a case that Dariusz may be yesterday’s news,” said Jacobs.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
We know from the great links that you've provided that Don wanted options. Maybe Roy would have been better agreeing to it? But at the time he didn't want to be tied in.
Jones's reasons should be taken with a pinch of salt. Years later when he was asked about the Benn fight he put all the blame on Benn
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
In the Documentary Beyond the Glory, Levin says that in his opinion it was a mistake for Roy not to tie in with promoter.
He was happy to do it to get a shot at Tito and Ruiz.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Loudon View Post
Roy always tried to things his own way. Like you said in a previous thread, there were advantages and disadvantages with it. In the end he made more money, but I think it halted his progression and cost him opportunities to fight good opponents, especially at 160.
True.

Last edited by general zod; 12-13-2012 at 08:01 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:53 AM   #259
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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If he really respected Frankie then he would of given him a shot.

Where did you hear that?

Jones would of struggled he had no real experience fighting southys as pro at smw. It's the reason why he "kind of" struggled with De Valle
Jones should be able to win on points but if Liles was to land the same right hand he landed on Littles then its good night Roy.
Things are never that straightforward in Boxing. If King wanted options on Roy for Benn, would he have wanted them for Frankie?

That video of Merchant saying Liles turned down a big money offer was interesting, but there were no other details given.

I've read an old article somewhere where he said it. I'll try and find it online. It was a while ago now. But I've also recently read an old article after Roy fought Paz, and I'm sure it was mentioned in there too. I'll have a look.

I agree regarding Roy having a hard time. Like I say, Harding caused him a lot of problems.
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Old 12-09-2012, 10:59 AM   #260
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Roy would have beaten anyone in his prime.... eubank lmao c'mon he ducked herol graham after a cple sparring sessions ffs, Benn was entertaining to watch but way overrated.
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Old 12-09-2012, 11:15 AM   #261
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Zod,


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Why does that matter?
Because this thread is specifically looking at the tiime period of when Roy was at 168. For the majority of Roy's 168 reign, Nunn was fighting at a higher weight. He was boxing as high as 195.

Quote:
So was Nunn, that vid was right before the rematch with Jones and Griffin
I know, that's my point. Again, we're debating why Roy didn't fight guys specifically during his 168 reign from 1994-96. That video is from 97.

I agree that Roy should have fought Nunn, but not at 160 or 168, because during Roy's 168 reign Micheal was hardly there. Unless Micheal decided to specifically box at higher weights because he couldn't get Roy, then I don't see an issue.

Last edited by Loudon; 12-10-2012 at 07:12 AM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:20 PM   #262
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Zod,

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He was prepared to deal with at 175 and hw, but not 168 That makes no sense.
The Benn negotiations were in 1995 when he was with Levin. He fought Gonzalez in 2001. Like I say Levin didn't want Roy tied in with King. Six years later, Roy may have had a different opinion, and also, what would the options have been for a Trinidad fight in 2001? I've no idea. But in the end, the fight didn't get made til 2008.


Quote:
Jones's reasons should be taken with a pinch of salt. Years later when he was asked about the Benn fight he put all the blame on Benn
Fair enough, but we know from your links that Don wanted options.

Quote:
He was happy to do it to get a shot at Tito and Ruiz.
Yes, but again that was years later, and what were the details?


Here's the article that I read recently regarding Levin. I haven't come across the earlier one that I referred to earlier though.


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Last edited by Loudon; 12-09-2012 at 02:50 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:23 PM   #263
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

Delete.

Last edited by Loudon; 12-09-2012 at 02:53 PM.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:36 PM   #264
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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allthebestfights.com is decent for catching up on fights. Kessler looked sharp, but beating Brian Magee doesn't tell us much - I just hope we can get Froch-Kessler 2 before both guys call it a day

Marquez deserved an official victory to his name in the series, but what a way to get it! I was shocked when he scored the first KD, the KO was devastating. I hope Manny can recover, but I wonder about how dedicated he has been to boxing recently. It's no secret that he's had problems with gambling, partying and women until last year when he became a dedicated christian. On top of that, he has his political career, how focused has he been on boxing? Guys like Marquez are 100% dedicated all year round, not just in training camp.

Another point is that a sparring video of Marquez was released a month ago, with him dropping an opponent with the same shot he KO'd Manny, how could Roach and Manny not be weary of that punch? Especially the way Manny came in at that angle with his hands at his waist and his chin in the air.

Can Manny recover? I wouldn't be surprised to see them have a fifth fight, I thought Pacquiao was winning up to that point
I've never come across that website, thanks a lot.

I think we'll definitely see a rematch between Froch and Kessler. Hasn't Ward got to face Kessler now though? I'm not sure.

I think you're right about Manny having lots of distractions, and Freddie never seems happy to me when they're in camp. He doesn't like it when he has a split camp. Manny insists that he trains in the Philippines for the first half of camp.

He's definitely lost a step in the last few years. Like you say, Marquez is a lot more dedicated. I haven't seen the sparring video. I think we could definitely see a 5th fight. It would definitely sell.
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Old 12-09-2012, 02:40 PM   #265
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

He ducked the RockMan during his heavyweight hiatus
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Old 12-10-2012, 07:14 AM   #266
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Old 12-10-2012, 03:22 PM   #267
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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He ducked the RockMan during his heavyweight hiatus
Really?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:46 PM   #268
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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Jones didn't duck nobody

You can't duck fighters you would obviously beat easily. Hence Jones ducked nobody
that means his career was pointless he should just sit tight and CLAIM he was the best
up to the point he got tired and old, then he just should CLAIM he is old and should retire
.... all that should be televised in ppv system, for example Jones siting at his couch
and pointing at S.Collins photo syaing ... you see now I'm throwing upper cut and he is down,
1, 2, ... 9 ... counted out ... next will be shown in April when I will talk how I'm going to KO Benn,
please come back .... I will show you my naked biceps then.
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:35 PM   #269
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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that means his career was pointless he should just sit tight and CLAIM he was the best
up to the point he got tired and old, then he just should CLAIM he is old and should retire
.... all that should be televised in ppv system, for example Jones siting at his couch
and pointing at S.Collins photo syaing ... you see now I'm throwing upper cut and he is down,
1, 2, ... 9 ... counted out ... next will be shown in April when I will talk how I'm going to KO Benn,
please come back .... I will show you my naked biceps then.
I've been on 8 count news earlier, and Collins has called Roy out. He's been bad mouthing Roy, and he wants to come out of retirement to fight him. Ha!
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Old 12-11-2012, 05:17 AM   #270
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Default Re: Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

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I've already pulled the resumes of Nardiello, Van Horn and Cordorba, and now I've just looked at Frank Nicotra's resume.

From 1994-96 while Roy was at 168, Nicotra had Just ONE FIGHT there against Hedi El Assaidi.

That's another one wiped off your list.

You think that Van Horn, Cordorba and Nicotra were DESERVING of fights? Ha!

You should have done your homework on this list, before typing it on here and criticising Roy.

You've just thrown a load of names around, without giving a seconds thought.
The list is strictly an objective list of Ring Magazine contenders that Roy did not fight while campaigning at SMW.
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