Discuss fighters Jones Jr ducked in his prime

[Loudon]

Bailey,

Wast posting it to you, but fair play for trying to answer, even though you tend to get schooled when you do

Trying? I answered.

Not one top undefeated fighter faced

Out of a possible one?

So you would have thought he would have taken the Bute fight

You would have thought that Bute would have entered the super six.

33, but im not sure what you are going on about here

He was 19 days from his 34th birthday, when he first beat a top undefeated fighter. Andre is only 28. So Joe was nearly 6 years older.

Joe hadn't beaten ANY top undefeated fighters at Andre's age.

huh Yes he beat Kessler when he was old and past his best... And...

And he was 35. So he was 7 years older than what Andre is now. Amazing!

One great one against Bute, in Oakland, which if Ward had of won, would have been considered his biggest win, but ward decided against that

He'd just won the super six, that Bute wasn't a part of.

Coming off wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall who were world rated and at some point SMW world champs, beating top 10 rated Sheika coming off an eliminator win over prime G Johnson, beating top 10 rated Starie who had beaten undefeated C Woods, beating UNDEFEATED Veit who would go on to hold a SMW title, and 3 other defences. WOW thats 4 fighters who were world rated who held or would hold a SMW title

Eubank was nearly at the end of his career, he struggled against Reid, and had a stinker against Starie.

Andre's just outclassed Froch with an injured hand.

No im not, look above

That's exactly what you're doing.

Joe didn't beat Lacy and Kessler at 28.

So lets do a comparison between both fighters at 28, and I'll ask you a question.

At 28, how many top undefeated fighters had Joe beaten?

The answer is NONE!

Wrong again Loudon, look above. Now whos the idiot. You have resorted to name calling, due to the constant pwnings you are taking and this is another to add to your collection.

I have not compared stats over an entire career at all, just what you asked for, and once again, you walk away owned

Yes you have. You're asking the same two questions over and over and over again.

Joe is only coming out on top, because as things stand, he's got a 20 fight advantage over Andre.

If you weren't comparing stats from Joe's entire career, then you would not be able to keep asking your two retarded questions.

Because you know that when Joe was at Andre's age, he too HADN'T had any top wins over undefeated fighters.

Let's repeat that, because it's making you look silly.

Joe at 28, hadn't beaten any top undefeated fighters!

Andre's just easily won the super six at 28.

In Joe's 28th year, he was having a hard time with David Starie.

In his 29th year, he was fighting Will McIntyre.

The stuff of legends!

You've just been pawned, schooled and owned.


Everytime you ask these two ridiculous questions, I'm going to copy and paste this answer.

So the more times you ask them, the dafter you'll look!

You'll end up self pawning! Ha!

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by bailey

Are you unable to bring them up?

Why would I copy and paste everything again, when you can simply find them yourself?

The more you keep asking, the dafter you look!

You're telling everybody who's reading this thread, that you're incapable of finding two posts that are numbered.

What's with the Sheffield thing all of sudden?

[bailey]

[quote]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Bailey,
Trying? I answered.
Out of a possible one?

Possible one? Could have fought Abraham, undefeated going into S6, Froch undefeated going into S6, Dirrell undefeated going into S6, but goes for the rusty fighter who had been exposed

You would have thought that Bute would have entered the super six.

wasnt given an opportunity. I thought that and someone showed me the link, he wasnt let in

He was 19 days from his 34th birthday, when he first beat a top undefeated fighter. Andre is only 28. So Joe was nearly 6 years older.

Veit was a top undefeated fighter. Not a world champ then, but top fighter. Veit went on to hold a SMW title

Joe hadn't beaten ANY top undefeated fighters at Andre's age.

Veit who held a SMW title and has a better resume than many of the current top 10

And he was 35. So he was 7 years older than what Andre is now. Amazing!

Did it when past best. certainly is amazing

He'd just won the super six, that Bute wasn't a part of.

S6, so that was Kessler, good win
Green
Bika
Abraham on a run of 1-2 and had lost his last 2 S6 fights
Froch coming in off an eliminator Mdec win over old G Johnson

Thats isnt that special really, when you think Bika, Green and Abraham werent that great and Froch was coming off a Mdec over old G Johnson. Calzaghe fought Sheika coming off a dec over prime G Johnson years before, which shows the difference in the era

Eubank was nearly at the end of his career,

So. So was Calzaghe when he beat Jones. Eubank was 32 and better than Kessler when Ward beat him

he struggled against Reid,

He went into that fight unwell, and had problems before going in where he people had put glass in his food, and had a damaged hand where he couldnt spar, but still won. Ward struggled with D Boone. Go figure
Still it shows the era as a Reid victim in Magee, who Reid put down 4 times and took the 0 of, when prime, pushed Froch and was only a point down against Froch on 2 cards when past his best

and had a stinker against Starie.

Calzaghe said that was alow point of his career, where his hand trouble was terrible and he couldnt spar or train properly, but he still won, thats the great thing.

Andre's just outclassed Froch with an injured hand.

So lets examine what Carl had done
won a vacant title against Pascal who did nothing at SMW
Was put down and behind against Taylor before a last minute KO
looked lucky to many against Dirrell whilst on rubber legs
Lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss
Clearly beat AA coming off a loss
Gets taken to a Mdec against old SMW journeyman G Johnson
Then fights Ward.

It wasnt exactly a clear golden run coming into that fight was it.

Calzaghe won many fights with damaged hands. Forget that?
Sheika was coming off a win over prime Johnson, so that shows the era has dropped

That's exactly what you're doing.

Joe didn't beat Lacy and Kessler at 28.

They werent active then, but he fought them when past his best.
Ward was fortunate to have an active Bute and didnt take it when offered at home

So lets do a comparison between both fighters at 28, and I'll ask you a question.

At 28, how many top undefeated fighters had Joe beaten?

The answer is NONE!

He fought 21-0 Delaney in a top British title fight, Veit who was 30-0 one month past 28, also Eubanks 2 losses were considered debateable, the first Collins fight many think he won, the second was a SD, Calzaghe beat him convincingly.

Yes you have. You're asking the same two questions over and over and over again.

You wanted age for age and got that and are now denying it

Joe is only coming out on top, because as things stand, he's got a 20 fight advantage over Andre.

No I gave you age for age -
Coming off wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall who were world rated and at some point SMW world champs, beating top 10 rated Sheika coming off an eliminator win over prime G Johnson, beating top 10 rated Starie who had beaten undefeated C Woods, beating UNDEFEATED Veit who would go on to hold a SMW title, and 3 other defences. WOW thats 4 fighters who were world rated who held or would hold a SMW title

That was all before Calzaghe was beating Brewer, Mitchell, Kessler and Lacy dummy

If you weren't comparing stats from Joe's entire career, then you would not be able to keep asking your two retarded questions.

Done it above thicko. Just look and read

Because you know that when Joe was at Andre's age, he too HADN'T had any top wins over undefeated fighters.

Yes he did, look above

Let's repeat that, because it's making you look silly.

Joe at 28, hadn't beaten any top undefeated fighters

Look above twat. Its there above for you to read. Not sure why you find that funny because Ward avoided that challenge, Calzaghe didnt

Andre's just easily won the super six at 28.

And never fought a fighter as good as Eubank in it and his best win was a Calzaghe leftover

In Joe's 28th year, he was having a hard time with David Starie.

Ward was having a hard time with Bika after Calzaghe had already beaten him.
Staries best win arguably undefeated C Woods
Bikas best win if its not Soliman maybe Manfredo after Calzaghe had beat him

In his 29th year, he was fighting Will McIntyre.

You must know that was because Echoles pulled out and that McIntyre was a late sub. Sure you must know that?
Thing is McIntyre although not a top fighter was a 29-2 fighter and was never badly dominated and destroyed by anyone other than Calzaghe, so was dealt with how you would expect by a top champ.
What tyou fail to note is that it was defence #9 and Calzaghe in his previous 2 fights had beaten fighter who were or became SMW champs, one of which was UNDEFEATED .
What you dont note that at that time Calzaghe had beaten
Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit all of which were or became SMW champs and 2 other top 10 fighters and 3 other defences. I agree stuff of a SMW legend
Run along now Loudon

[bailey]

Originally Posted by Loudon

Why would I copy and paste everything again, when you can simply find them yourself?

The more you keep asking, the dafter you look!

You're telling everybody who's reading this thread, that you're incapable of finding two posts that are numbered.

What's with the Sheffield thing all of sudden?

Your're telling everyone that you cannot go back and copy and paste those links, or maybe that you dont have enough faith in those links to put your name to them, which it seems would be the most likely. Thats makes you look daft that you are swearing by them, but too nervous to put your name to them , when asked up fron by me

[irishny]

Mario Veit was never at any point a "top class" boxer.

When he first fought Calzaghe and was undefeated, what was his best win???
Seriously Id really like you to answer that question.

Also whats the big deal over undefeated anyway??

Nearly all the best fighters in the world have losses on their record.

Pacquiao
Marquez
Martinez
ALL have a number of losses on their record.

Just because you've protected you "0" long enough to get a title fight by fighting nobodies, doesnt mean you're any good.

Case in point...Mario Veit, who had literally fought NO ONE above club fighter level when he first fought Calzaghe!

The fact that he was undefeated MEANT NOTHING!

[irishny]

...I also cant help notice that you referred to Will Mcintyre as "top notch fighter"

Tell me...who was the best fighter that McIntyre beat,that would make you label him "top notch"

[bailey]

Originally Posted by irishny

Mario Veit was never at any point a "top class" boxer.

When he first fought Calzaghe and was undefeated, what was his best win???
Seriously Id really like you to answer that question.

Also whats the big deal over undefeated anyway??

Nearly all the best fighters in the world have losses on their record.

Just because you've protected you "0" long enough to get a title fight by fighting nobodies, doesnt mean you're any good.

Case in point...Mario Veit, who had literally fought NO ONE above club fighter level when he first fought Calzaghe!

The fact that he was undefeated MEANT NOTHING!

Undefeated fighters often tend to have a confidence that once damaged they can often not look the same, many felt that in Butes first fight back as an example

The win Calzaghe had over Veit was a very good victory.
The first time Calzaghe beat Veit, Veit was 30-0 and hadnt beaten anyone of real note, hence he was blown away in a round by Calzaghe.
When Calzaghe beat Veit a 2nd time Veit was an accomplished world rated 45-1 fighter who had some solid victories behind him, and was top 10 rated and was the WBO int SMW champ.
Veit had beaten undefeated Dziarra who wasnt a great fighter but did go on to beat L Mock and undefeated M Oral who would go on to challenge MW champs A Abraham and S Sylvester recently.
Veit had also beaten beaten undefeated Guerrero for the European union title.
Veit beat future title challenger Salem and Mock.
Veit also beat world rated C Brewer with an educated destructive 9th round KO to win the WBO int title.
A note on Veit. He only ever lost to world champs or fighters who became world champs and has victories over Mock, Salem, Perdermo (a future Kessler challenger), Brewer when Brewer was world rated and Veit beat undefeated 27-0 Braehmer who won WBO LHW champ and never lost the title in the ring.
A good Calzaghe victory over a mandatory world class SMW
Also a great away victory for Calzaghe in Germany

[bailey]

Originally Posted by irishny

...I also cant help notice that you referred to Will Mcintyre as "top notch fighter"

Tell me...who was the best fighter that McIntyre beat,that would make you label him "top notch"

No I didnt

Thing is McIntyre although not a top fighter was a 29-2 fighter and was never badly dominated and destroyed by anyone other than Calzaghe, so was dealt with how you would expect by a top champ.

Think you should read a bit more carefully

[irishny]

Dziarra???? Who was Dziarra's biggest win?
Guerrero???? Who was Guerreros biggest win?
Brewer who NINE losses on his record?

Perdome whop went on to fight Kessler? Just because Kessler chose Perdomo for a tune up fight doesnt make him any good!

Lolenga Mock? The guy has a record of 30-13-1!!!!!

Of course Veit only lost to tp fighters, because everyone else he fought was completely shit when he fought them!

The only mildly decent win was against Brahemer which was controversial, and he got KO'd in 4 when they fought thereafter.

[Loggo]

Is it explained why some tosspot mentioned James Toney? bballchump or something i think he was

[general zod]

Originally Posted by Loudon

The stuff of legends!

I don't really have the energy to really take part in this type of thread (which turns up at least once a month) anymore. I'll pm you the answers to your questions some other time.

[Loudon]

Bailey,

Possible one? Could have fought Abraham, undefeated going into S6, Froch undefeated going into S6, Dirrell undefeated going into S6, but goes for the rusty fighter who had been exposed

Haha! Was it Andre's super six?

Was he responsible for the draw? Did he personally arrange all the fights. Dirrell and Froch fought each other. Was that at Andre's request? Did he say I don't want to fight those guys?

wasnt given an opportunity. I thought that and someone showed me the link, he wasnt let in

It doesn't matter if he wasn't let in, or he chose not to go in. He wasn't in the tournament, and now you're holding it against Andre. It's not enough for you that he just easily won the tournament. Even if he'd have beaten Bute, you still wouldn't give him any credit.

Veit was a top undefeated fighter. Not a world champ then, but top fighter. Veit went on to hold a SMW title
Veit who held a SMW title and has a better resume than many of the current top 10

Did it when past best. certainly is amazing

A great win for Joe, but that's not the point. The point is you're using the wins he had against Lacy and Kessler, when he was in his mid 30's, as a stick to beat Andre with, and it's just sad.

S6, so that was Kessler, good win
Green
Bika
Abraham on a run of 1-2 and had lost his last 2 S6 fights
Froch coming in off an eliminator Mdec win over old G Johnson

Thats isnt that special really, when you think Bika, Green and Abraham werent that great and Froch was coming off a Mdec over old G Johnson. Calzaghe fought Sheika coming off a dec over prime G Johnson years before, which shows the difference in the era

Of course you don't think it was that special. But if Joe had've won the super six in the same manner, I'm sure you'd have creamed your pants, and you be on here with a tribute thread everyday!

So. So was Calzaghe when he beat Jones. Eubank was 32 and better than Kessler when Ward beat him

So what?

He went into that fight unwell, and had problems before going in where he people had put glass in his food, and had a damaged hand where he couldnt spar, but still won. Ward struggled with D Boone. Go figure
Still it shows the era as a Reid victim in Magee, who Reid put down 4 times and took the 0 of, when prime, pushed Froch and was only a point down against Froch on 2 cards when past his best

Poor Joe.

Calzaghe said that was alow point of his career, where his hand trouble was terrible and he couldnt spar or train properly, but he still won, thats the great thing.

Yeah it was fantastic! What about his stinker against Thornberry too, that made sent the U.S. fans to sleep?

So lets examine what Carl had done
won a vacant title against Pascal who did nothing at SMW
Was put down and behind against Taylor before a last minute KO
looked lucky to many against Dirrell whilst on rubber legs
Lost to unwell Kessler coming off a loss
Clearly beat AA coming off a loss
Gets taken to a Mdec against old SMW journeyman G Johnson
Then fights Ward.

Ha! Why are we examining what Carl has done?

What did he do after Ward had outclassed him? He destroyed Bute.

So what do you think?

Was Bute a hype job, or a good win? Is Carl a good fighter or not? Does Andre not deserve any credit for winning the tournament?

They werent active then, but he fought them when past his best.
Ward was fortunate to have an active Bute and didnt take it when offered at home

Yes, but again you're using Joe's best two wins against Andre.

There's no need to do a comparison.

He fought 21-0 Delaney in a top British title fight, Veit who was 30-0 one month past 28, also Eubanks 2 losses were considered debateable, the first Collins fight many think he won, the second was a SD, Calzaghe beat him convincingly.

They weren't TOP undefeated fighters.

You wanted age for age and got that and are now denying it
No I gave you age for age -

The two questions that you keep asking over and over again, have got nothing to do with an age to age comparison.

Joe's wins against top two undefeated fighters, came when he was nearly 34, and 35.

No I gave you age for age. Coming off wins over Eubank, Reid, Woodhall who were world rated and at some point SMW world champs, beating top 10 rated Sheika coming off an eliminator win over prime G Johnson, beating top 10 rated Starie who had beaten undefeated C Woods, beating UNDEFEATED Veit who would go on to hold a SMW title, and 3 other defences. WOW thats 4 fighters who were world rated who held or would hold a SMW title

You're only doing an age to age comparison NOW!

You haven't been doing that for the last three months, when you've been copy and pasting the same questions over and over again.

Done it above thicko. Just look and read

Once again, you're only doing that now.

If you had been doing a comparison between both fighters at 28, you WOULD NOT be able to ask your questions.

Yes he did, look above

No he hadn't, because Delaney and Veit were NOT top fighters. They were good wins and nothing more.

Look above twat. Its there above for you to read. Not sure why you find that funny because Ward avoided that challenge, Calzaghe didnt

I'm a twat? It's you who thinks Delaney and Veit were top fighters! Ha!

Your boy Joe nearly bottled against Lacy, till Frank threatened him. This is the guy who chased Roy! Ha!

And never fought a fighter as good as Eubank in it and his best win was a Calzaghe leftover

That's only your opinion.

Ward was having a hard time with Bika after Calzaghe had already beaten him.
Staries best win arguably undefeated C Woods
Bikas best win if its not Soliman maybe Manfredo after Calzaghe had beat him

Joe had a tough time with Bika.

You must know that was because Echoles pulled out and that McIntyre was a late sub. Sure you must know that?
Thing is McIntyre although not a top fighter was a 29-2 fighter and was never badly dominated and destroyed by anyone other than Calzaghe, so was dealt with how you would expect by a top champ.
What tyou fail to note is that it was defence #9 and Calzaghe in his previous 2 fights had beaten fighter who were or became SMW champs, one of which was UNDEFEATED .
What you dont note that at that time Calzaghe had beaten
Eubank, Reid, Woodhall, Veit all of which were or became SMW champs and 2 other top 10 fighters and 3 other defences. I agree stuff of a SMW legend

Wow! Unbelievable!

Run along now Loudon

What's with the sheffield thing? This is the 3 rd time I've asked.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by bailey

Your're telling everyone that you cannot go back and copy and paste those links, or maybe that you dont have enough faith in those links to put your name to them, which it seems would be the most likely. Thats makes you look daft that you are swearing by them, but too nervous to put your name to them , when asked up fron by me

It makes me look daft?

You're trying to argue against things that you haven't even seen. Most other people on this thread have seen them. So when you try to put up a fight, how do you think it makes you look?

You want me to copy and paste up all of the links, when I've given you the post numbers and the page numbers? Ha!

There's only one reason you won't take 20 seconds to find them.

[Loudon]

Originally Posted by general zod

I don't really have the energy to really take part in this type of thread (which turns up at least once a month) anymore. I'll pm you the answers to your questions some other time.

Ok mate. That's nice of you, thanks. I'll be interested to read them.

Apparently, you've been pretending to be from Leeds?

Apparently, I've also been pretending to be from Sheffield?

According to Bailey, we're both lying!

[Mind Reader]

Originally Posted by bailey

Undefeated fighters often tend to have a confidence that once damaged they can often not look the same, many felt that in Butes first fight back as an example

The win Calzaghe had over Veit was a very good victory.
The first time Calzaghe beat Veit, Veit was 30-0 and hadnt beaten anyone of real note, hence he was blown away in a round by Calzaghe.
When Calzaghe beat Veit a 2nd time Veit was an accomplished world rated 45-1 fighter who had some solid victories behind him, and was top 10 rated and was the WBO int SMW champ.
Veit had beaten undefeated Dziarra who wasnt a great fighter but did go on to beat L Mock and undefeated M Oral who would go on to challenge MW champs A Abraham and S Sylvester recently.
Veit had also beaten beaten undefeated Guerrero for the European union title.
Veit beat future title challenger Salem and Mock.
Veit also beat world rated C Brewer with an educated destructive 9th round KO to win the WBO int title.
A note on Veit. He only ever lost to world champs or fighters who became world champs and has victories over Mock, Salem, Perdermo (a future Kessler challenger), Brewer when Brewer was world rated and Veit beat undefeated 27-0 Braehmer who won WBO LHW champ and never lost the title in the ring.
A good Calzaghe victory over a mandatory world class SMW
Also a great away victory for Calzaghe in Germany

Out of curiosity, how would you see a fight going between 45-1 Veit vs. Jones Jr from the Toney fight?