Barry McGuigan - I've had enough of you.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Originally Posted by Arnie

Does it f:ck olu

Guess the truth hurts Arnie. I am sorry but I felt strongly about it at the time and frankly over 25 years later I still feel as strongly about it.

[ardy]

Originally Posted by Olu G. Rotimi

I am sorry to say but the comments you made are idiotic. Even Barry himself today admits Nelson was a superior fighter. A matchup between them would have resulted in a brutal knockout of Barry Mrs McGiggle as Azumah used to call him refer to Barry as a She because she was afraid to fight. Nelson did all he could to make the fight but McGuigan and his people avoided it studiously. That takes away from McGuigan's legacy. Anybody who saw Nelson give the great Sanchez hell as a late substitute and novice fighter knew that the great Gomez was doomed. Nelson just did not neat Gomez he knocked him out in Puerto Rico. McGuigan ended up losing to Steve Cruz of all the people. Only retards and the uninformed could think McGuigan would have won against Nelson ever. Harsh words but true.

My comments are as I remember the times. I've been reading Boxing News since around 82 and during the time of the McGuigan/Nelson debate in 85/86, most of their readers would have considered McGuigan the favourite to beat Nelson,that is a fact. Talking up a fight by calling people silly names doesn't mean McGuigan would have been frightened of Nelson, it just wasn't McGuigans style to react to it. As far as the Irish press were concerned the fight was going to happen at some stage and that was the general opinion of most at that time, but it didn't happen because of Cruz. Would he have beaten Nelson if they had fought, we will never know only speculate. And by the way in my culture to call someone idiotic is offensive, so if your tone continues in this manner I won't be replying to anymore of your posts.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Yes we know what would have happened and frankly McGuigan's handlers the Eastwoods knew. Anyone who even thinks the outcome is debatable is deluded. Nelson destroyed much better than McGiggle. Nelson is q great and legendary your hero Barry is not.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Originally Posted by ardy

My comments are as I remember the times. I've been reading Boxing News since around 82 and during the time of the McGuigan/Nelson debate in 85/86, most of their readers would have considered McGuigan the favourite to beat Nelson,that is a fact. Talking up a fight by calling people silly names doesn't mean McGuigan would have been frightened of Nelson, it just wasn't McGuigans style to react to it. As far as the Irish press were concerned the fight was going to happen at some stage and that was the general opinion of most at that time, but it didn't happen because of Cruz. Would he have beaten Nelson if they had fought, we will never know only speculate. And by the way in my culture to call someone idiotic is offensive, so if your tone continues in this manner I won't be replying to anymore of your posts.

By the way I am not calling you idiotic. I would not do that. It is the comments that I take serious issue with not you personally. As you can probably tell I have serious views on this issue about Barry McGuigan because his antics prevented what should have been career defining for both men.

[Strongback]

Wee Barry's a sales man..............he always was.

He was bought in a smuggling town where wheelin and dealin was the name of the game. He has never forgotten that.


The cutting people off thing is annoying. Makes him look arrogant when I don't think he is.

He's a great talker and the long radio interviews he has done down through the years are a pleasure to listen to.



I don't think Azumah needed McGuigan to cement his legacy. Can't ever have seen Barry winning that fight.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Thankfully Azumah was able to meet and defeat better legendary fighters like Jeff Fenech, Mario Azabzche Martinez and the great Gomez to establish his legend and legacy.

[Strike]

Originally Posted by Olu G. Rotimi

Yes we know what would have happened and frankly McGuigan's handlers the Eastwoods knew. Anyone who even thinks the outcome is debatable is deluded. Nelson destroyed much better than McGiggle. Nelson is q great and legendary your hero Barry is not.

You are totally misreading his posts. He is not saying McGuigan would have won, he is saying that AT THE TIME people did not know how good Nelson was and that McGuigan would have felt confident of winning and that many would have had him as favourite.

When Clay stepped in with Liston for the first time, Liston was the huge favourite and most people thought he would destroy Clay. It turned out to be wrong.

Hindsight is different to what people feel at a given moment. All he is saying is that McGuigan would have felt he would win and that at that time Nelson was not feared in the way that he would go on to be.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Originally Posted by Strike

You are totally misreading his posts. He is not saying McGuigan would have won, he is saying that AT THE TIME people did not know how good Nelson was and that McGuigan would have felt confident of winning and that many would have had him as favourite.

When Clay stepped in with Liston for the first time, Liston was the huge favourite and most people thought he would destroy Clay. It turned out to be wrong.

Hindsight is different to what people feel at a given moment. All he is saying is that McGuigan would have felt he would win and that at that time Nelson was not feared in the way that he would go on to be.

Of course Nelson was feared back then ever since his performance as a last mnute substitute against the great Sanchez (may his perfect soul rest in peace). Nelson has honoured Sanchez's career and legend by going on to have the career he did. McGuigan and his handlers were not confident at all. Micky Duff a great friend of McGuigan's manager Barney Eastwood was in Azumah Nelson's corner for the Sanchez fight and pretty sure he advised Barney that Barry be kept away from Nelson. Barney Eastwood was also ringside when Azumah defended his WBC title against that fine Irish boxer Pat Cowdell and what he saw made up his mind when Nelson knocked Pat Cowdell unconscious with a left uppercut I in the 1st round. Only those not in the know could conceive of McGuigan winning. A friend of mine having neve seen Nelson in 1985 though surely McGuigan would win until he saw a fight of Nelson and said that Barry's style was made to order for Nelson.

[pathmanc1986]

The irony of someone calling someone else an idiot when he claimed to manage a fighter he didnt have anything to do with...

[Gazza]

The guy drains the life out of me, and the Flintoff thing has just topped it off its a joke

[Strike]

Originally Posted by Olu G. Rotimi

Of course Nelson was feared back then ever since his performance as a last mnute substitute against the great Sanchez (may his perfect soul rest in peace). Nelson has honoured Sanchez's career and legend by going on to have the career he did. McGuigan and his handlers were not confident at all. Micky Duff a great friend of McGuigan's manager Barney Eastwood was in Azumah Nelson's corner for the Sanchez fight and pretty sure he advised Barney that Barry be kept away from Nelson. Barney Eastwood was also ringside when Azumah defended his WBC title against that fine Irish boxer Pat Cowdell and what he saw made up his mind when Nelson knocked Pat Cowdell unconscious with a left uppercut I in the 1st round. Only those not in the know could conceive of McGuigan winning. A friend of mine having neve seen Nelson in 1985 though surely McGuigan would win until he saw a fight of Nelson and said that Barry's style was made to order for Nelson.

Why are you posting this to me? I was not telling you that Nelson was not as feared as he would become to be, I was telling you what the other lad was saying so you would stop addressing his posts as if he was saying McGuigan would have beaten Nelson.

You are arguing with points that nobody has made.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Originally Posted by Strike

Why are you posting this to me? I was not telling you that Nelson was not as feared as he would become to be, I was telling you what the other lad was saying so you would stop addressing his posts as if he was saying McGuigan would have beaten Nelson.

You are arguing with points that nobody has made.

I am agreeing with your points actually apart from one which is I don't believe McGuigan and his handlers thought he cold win back then because though the general public may not have known how good Nelson was the McGuigan certainly did. It gets on my tits when Barry says things like a particular fighter lacks intestinal fortitude etc when he sidestepped his career defining challenge. By contrast Marquez and Pacman fought each other four times to get a definite winner. Ricky Hatton is appreciated for not ducking Mayweather and Pacman. He may have lost but gained eternal respect.

[BlackBrenny]

Originally Posted by ardy

If you know anything about McGuigans boxing history, you will know that he didn't avoid Nelson, sure the same could be argued that Nelson avoided McGuigan, but that's not true either. No promoter offered them the contest for the money it was worth, and also they were building towards the unification fight only Barry got derailed by Cruz. And besides back in 84/85/86 Nelson wasn't considered the household name he was to become [ it was a major shock when he defeated Gomez], most people thought if McGuigan and Nelson fought, then Barry would win, and I'm sure Barry would have thought the same.

Barney Eastwood said he kept McGuigan away because Nelson would have killed him, I don't know many people around here who gave McGuigan much if any kind of a shot.

Michael, I suggest you read Eastwoods book, THAT is an eye opener

as for this "bringing people together" stuff...well i've said my piece on that myth more times than enough

[Strike]

Originally Posted by Olu G. Rotimi

I am agreeing with your points actually apart from one which is I don't believe McGuigan and his handlers thought he cold win back then

I didn't say he did, I said that, that is what ardy was saying to you.

[Olu G. Rotimi]

Originally Posted by BlackBrenny

Barney Eastwood said he kept McGuigan away because Nelson would have killed him, I don't know many people around here who gave McGuigan much if any kind of a shot.

Michael, I suggest you read Eastwoods book, THAT is an eye opener

as for this "bringing people together" stuff...well i've said my piece on that myth more times than enough

I could not agree more. I remember Barney Eastwood after watching Azumah Nelson brutally KO Pat Cowdell say that McGuigan did not need Azumah Nelson.