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Old 12-16-2012, 05:04 PM   #1
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Default Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

I may be mistaken, but I've always been under the impression that Spinks' achievement of dethroning Holmes as the Heavyweight Champion of the world in '85 is a little understated around these parts. I totally accept that Holmes wasn't at his peak when defeated by Spinks, a blown up Light Heavyweight, but you also have to factor in that Spinks wasn't at his best either. He was the smaller man and went into the fight as a massive underdog. Holmes would go on to put in good performances even after this fight, and it wasn't as if Spinks fought cautiously and stole the title. He took it. He outworked and out-punched the bigger man. I think it's a very impressive display. A very, very good win. A great win.

Thoughts?
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:13 PM   #2
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

You are right, it is, as in Tunney can be seen ranked in the top 20 at HW - even the top, for example on Burt Sugar's list - for beating six heavyweights including old Dempsey, but you never see Spinks getting a similar mention for beating four much bigger men including old Holmes. Of course, it helps that Tunney beat Dempsey clean twice and there's some shit about Holmes. But Spinks can't be that far behind Tunney, and for my money beat a HW champion.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:14 PM   #3
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

I am with you on this one.

What often gets forgotten ins that Spinks was close to the super middleweight limit a few months before this fight!
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:26 PM   #4
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

I think had Holmes still been seen as a true champion the victory would have been much better. As it is he edged out an old Holmes who should have lost his title to spoon a couple of years prior.

Then for my money Spinks lost the rematch.

It's a great victory, just we need to remember that Spinks was never the man in the division.

P4P wise it's a tremendous achievement and I'm not sure why it's viewed so far behind tunney and his victory over Dempsey.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:31 PM   #5
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

At the time, the papers and magazines were falling all over themselves, saying how this achievement "certified his greatness" and all that, so I think the thread of that appreciation was lost some time after the fact. It was quite a big deal then. Might have had someting to do with that very soon being overshadowed by the beginning of a dynamic new era with Tyson's ascent to the top. When that happened, people spoke of nothing else in the whole of boxing, let along the heavyweight division. Maybe Spinks' achievement got lost in the shuffle somehow.
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:38 PM   #6
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

Wait there were two Spinks brothers?
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Old 12-16-2012, 05:40 PM   #7
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

Spinks v Tunney at HW.

How do you see it?
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
They also had a father; Cory Spinks.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:22 PM   #9
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

simply put and this is what hurts Hearns,, If you lose your biggest fight it tends to make it hard for people to see the other accomplishments. Hearns beat Cuevas,Benitez,Duran,Hill all when they were champions, but people remember more Hagler and Leonard. Same with Spinks. Two fights he beat Holmes (regardless of decision opinions) and he beat Cooney, but people never forget losing to Tyson in 90 seconds.
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Old 12-16-2012, 06:22 PM   #10
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

I think he gets an appropriate amount of credit given the circumstances around the win. I'm just about the biggest Holmes skeptic on this board but I really don't hold the losses to Spinks against him. After all, Larry was basically a mummy going into this fight.

He was flabby, bored, shopworn, and more focused on his life after boxing than he was in beating Spinks. Its still an excellent win for Spinks, but I don't think it rates on the same level as Duran-Leonard I or Greb-Tunny, still a great feather in Spinks cap.
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Old 12-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #11
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

Quote:
Originally Posted by salsanchezfan View Post
At the time, the papers and magazines were falling all over themselves, saying how this achievement "certified his greatness" and all that, so I think the thread of that appreciation was lost some time after the fact. It was quite a big deal then. Might have had someting to do with that very soon being overshadowed by the beginning of a dynamic new era with Tyson's ascent to the top. When that happened, people spoke of nothing else in the whole of boxing, let along the heavyweight division. Maybe Spinks' achievement got lost in the shuffle somehow.
I'm right in line with this. Tysonmania ate it up and obscured it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
They also had a father; Cory Spinks.
Don't forget their cat. Jinx.
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Old 12-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #12
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

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Originally Posted by The Funny Man 7 View Post
I think he gets an appropriate amount of credit given the circumstances around the win. I'm just about the biggest Holmes skeptic on this board but I really don't hold the losses to Spinks against him. After all, Larry was basically a mummy going into this fight.

He was flabby, bored, shopworn, and more focused on his life after boxing than he was in beating Spinks. Its still an excellent win for Spinks, but I don't think it rates on the same level as Duran-Leonard I or Greb-Tunny, still a great feather in Spinks cap.
...But he rematched Holmes, a more game and prepared Holmes, and still got the win. I'm not conveniently forgetting that the decision in the rematch is highly disputed, but for my money it was a close enough fight that the decision could have conceivably been scored for either man. It's not what I'd call a "robbery".

In any event, I don't buy too much into the "bored" and "flabby" excuses. He could have been in better shape, but he believed like the rest of the world that he just needed to turn up. Shopworn? So what, Michael Spinks wasn't exactly at optimal abilities carrying that weight and fighting an opponent that much bigger than him. Holmes would go on to put in admirable performances years later against the likes of Ray Mercer. He wasn't done. I just think he didn't show Spinks enough respect. It backfired. Fantastic win, and I liked how he took it to Holmes. We saw in the rematch that even a prepared Holmes would struggle against Spinks.
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #13
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

Quote:
Originally Posted by lufcrazy View Post
I think had Holmes still been seen as a true champion the victory would have been much better. As it is he edged out an old Holmes who should have lost his title to spoon a couple of years prior.

Then for my money Spinks lost the rematch.

It's a great victory, just we need to remember that Spinks was never the man in the division.

P4P wise it's a tremendous achievement and I'm not sure why it's viewed so far behind tunney and his victory over Dempsey.
How many did not view Holmes as true champ??? Been a while since I watched that fight, but I remember Holmes winning it (This goes on my wekends viewing list)???

I also scored Holmes I a draw and Holmes II for Holmes, so I think that might weigh into my option of not viewing as dynamically as Tunney from a historical perspective???
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Old 12-17-2012, 07:59 PM   #14
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

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Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69 View Post
How many did not view Holmes as true champ??? Been a while since I watched that fight, but I remember Holmes winning it (This goes on my wekends viewing list)???

I also scored Holmes I a draw and Holmes II for Holmes, so I think that might weigh into my option of not viewing as dynamically as Tunney from a historical perspective???
Wow. I'd be hard stretched to score the first fight in Holmes favour.
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Old 12-17-2012, 08:07 PM   #15
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Default Re: Why doesn't Michael Spinks get more credit for Holmes I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Addie View Post
Wow. I'd be hard stretched to score the first fight in Holmes favour.
I didn't sat he won...

But alright I am going to go watch 4 fights

Holmes vs Spoon
Holmes vs Spinks
and Mercer vs Lewis
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