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Old 02-11-2013, 02:00 PM   #1
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Default In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

I visited The German Sport University - Deutsche Sporthochschule Köln for a week during my Winter Break and one of the top researcher/professors there is a huge boxing fan. He actually developed a very nice chart that figured out which ATG HW fought the most out of shape fighters.

Out of Shape as in -10+/15+ Pounds above Ideal fighting weight.


This is a subject that could obviously be debated, but Sporthochschule Koln is one of the premier leading Schools in Sports Science and I trust their word for it. The Ideal fighting weight of each fighter is taken into consideration based on the estimation and actual stats/proof of how well a heavyweight perform at a certain weight during a certain fight/period of time. (Peak/Prime/Past Prime factors)





Professor Lindburg also stated that just because someone look out of shape does not mean he is that much above his ideal fighting weight. Recent Example include Cuban Heavyweight Odlanier Solis.

Even though he looks out of shape at 246.. he will still look 'fat' even at 230. Which should be his ideal weight range.









List of heavyweight champions and the 'out of shape fighters' they fought.

Muhammad Ali:
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range":
8



Wladimir Klitschko
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
18


Larry Holmes
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
9


Vitali Klitschko
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
14



Joe Frazier
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
7



George Foreman
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
10



Joe Louis:
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
13




Rocky Marciano:
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
7


Sonny Liston
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
7




Evander Holyfield
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
8



Mike Tyson
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
7


Riddick Bowe
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
8




Lennox Lewis
Number of opponents above 'Ideal Fighting Weight Range'
5
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:04 PM   #2
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

...how did they work out what would be a fighters ideal weight?
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:08 PM   #3
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kmanaG View Post
...how did they work out what would be a fighters ideal weight?
Very interesting theories on that, but I mostly agree with them.

Let's take a current heavyweight champion.

Wladimir Kytscho's top win is Chris Byrd I. Or at least one of his top wins.
During that fight Wlad weighted at only 237.
Ruslan Chagaev's lost to Wlad also resulted in Wlad weighting around 239/240.
Wlad's wins over Haye and Sultan resulted in him weighting in at 238/242.

Now.. most boxing experts will acknowledge that Wlad was Prime from Chagaev onward... so that must be factored in as well.

We see Wlad fighting heavier and heavier these days
But Wlad's true ideal fighting weight is around the range of 238-240.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:15 PM   #4
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

I disagree with this.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:21 PM   #5
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

I also read that article by Professor Lindburg and he stated that it is common sense Chris Arreloa is above his ideal fighting weight. How do we know Chris Arreloa isn't just naturally better fighting fat?

It will be perceived as COMMON SENSE. but maybe if Arreloa gets skinnier or 'fittier' he will start sucking and not boxing so well??
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:24 PM   #6
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

LOL

Germans
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:29 PM   #7
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crimson View Post
LOL

Germans
I trust the opinions and factual break down of the front leading Sports DA CONGIERE of Europe over ESB Posters.
If they say a fighter is above his ideal fighting weight and convinces me using good logic. I say Ye.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:46 PM   #8
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

all that tells me is the heavyweights of today are fat & out of shape & the boxers that fight the brothers just plump on weight on to try to compete with them, that we already know
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:32 PM   #9
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

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Originally Posted by welsh_dragon83 View Post
all that tells me is the heavyweights of today are fat & out of shape & the boxers that fight the brothers just plump on weight on to try to compete with them, that we already know
The up coming crop is pretty fit. Jennings,Price,Fury(now) Wilder. etc
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:35 PM   #10
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

I disagree with this greatly.

Especially for the HW division. It just can't even be done for HW, so many variables and so many examples which would point to the contrary.

Joe Louis 13? You shitting me? Do they count Abe Simon and Buddy Baer twice each? Because those guys coming in bigger than "ideal," whatever that even means, made them a bigger threat and a better challenge.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:39 PM   #11
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

their heavyweights... lol weight fluctuates up there doesnt mean their out of shape. be better to do it for smaller divisions
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:39 PM   #12
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Default Re: In-Depth stats break down of who fought the most out of shape fighters.

Not sure if they are out of shape. I think more modern HW fighters are taking boxing later in life. So many do not have the physique of a leaner fighter. Not necessarily out of shape but just not the physique of a boxing lifer

(and PEDs in the Klits case..... kiddin, kidding. cheap shot I know).
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