This win has a tremendous amount of meaning

[kirk]

Originally Posted by IsaL

8 years... Don't act like its not strange that out of all 3 fights that went 12, NONE went in favor of JMM, despite him performing better... "Sorry Juan, it's just business".... -Bob Arum

Nothing to do with my post

Originally Posted by IsaL

If you can't see how Pac's opponents were extremely carefully picked after all these years, then I don't know what to say to you...

Nothing to do with my post, in fact.... its so far off the radar it literally has nothing to do with anything ive said.

Originally Posted by IsaL

They always waited on JMM to get old, but JMM refused to get old because since 2004 all JMM had been after was that W against Pac. 8 years of JMM chasing Pacquiao and getting low balled... He even had to go to the PI to chase after a rematch... Had this gone to the score cards, based on the other fights, its likely JMM would have gotten ripped off again.

You are missing the point and being over emotional about this. Fair enough, it was quite an emotional night, for myself too as a boxing fan. But you are missing the point. Its not about that Marquez could have gotten ripped off again, its about this wasnt a cherry pick.... and Pac deserves credit for even making this epic rivalry happen, when many fighters like to look the other way of their kryptonite. Pac not only didnt look the other way, he went at it.... again, again, and again.

You feeling the need to spin that, and twist it into a negative says something.

Originally Posted by IsaL

Was JMM a cherry pick? The time they waited for the rematches definitely was.

This fight was one year after Marquez beat Pac in the eyes of many.

One year.

You want to talk about how the third fight was a cherry pick? By all means I will be quiet on that. But once it was shown that Marquez is still very much alive, and still very much Pacs peer, if not moreso, in that third fight..... for Pac to be beaten in the eyes of so many and to come back the following year to face the same guy to settle it, instead of just waiting for the Rios fight, is a credit to Pac. Any spinning of this is just dishonor to the beautiful, historic night that just happened.

Originally Posted by IsaL

And this made the victory that much sweeter... Old man JMM went in there on e again with the better plan, but this time Pacquiao did not have the help from the judges...

Congrats JMM!

Indeed.... congrats to JMM and to his fans that have supported him

[Manfred]

Originally Posted by IsaL

Historically, Rivalry, Fuck you to the Commissions, Organizations, HBO, Bob Arum, and every corrupt official.

But most importantly, it was for his own justice.

Juan Manuel Marquez is an ATG.. He has become a legend, a living legend, especially in Mexico.

But JMM is the type a fighter the Networks, Commissions, and Promoters (like in Marquez' case) exploit. He is a fighter that only the true Hardcore boxing fan can truly appreciate in its full form... The science behind his style, his technique, his ring IQ, only understood by real fans.

So there is not as much investment in him, because there are fighters who are more marketable despite them being lesser fighter, like Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Manny Pacquiao, etc...

They rob him so he doesn't become a spoiler, they low ball him, because he knows they make the decisions, he has to endure humiliating situations like his disgrace with Chris John, from the pay, to the robbery....

JMM has fought and beat everyone, except for Mayweather. He never ducked anyone. He never said no to a fight because of size, money, testing, etc... He fought young, seasoned, atg's, P4Pers, anyone and everyone...

But Marquez was robbed of early retirement. He knew he had gotten robbed multiple times, and when he realized he was robbed out of pure greed, probably sometime after the 2nd fight, he knew he would do anything to right that wrong.

JMM went on to completely outbox and humiliate Pac in the 3rd fight, and to JMM's surprise he was Robbed, again, despite the schooling administered!

So he gets the 4th fight, and he knows that he has everything against him, including benefit of the doubt, because he needs to perform even better than the 3rd fight. He is also older, he has the judges already against him in his eyes, he knows Bob Arum wants Pac to win because Arum is a greedy fuck, and JMM knows Arum is corrupt, in fact he has no doubts about it. JMM understands Pacquiao vs Mayweather needs to be made according to the Boxing industry, he knows its the richest fight ever... His fans are counting on him, he has an entire country on his back, counting on him... Did you see how many were there for JMM? Not the celebrities, but the masses, it was ALL JMM, so it seemed...

He was getting only 6mil, compared to the 26+ MILLION the man he had beat 3 previous times according to him, and me, and most hardcore fans...

So at the ripe old age of 39, he trains on how he was going to finish Pac's career once and for all. There is even a video on how he was going to KO Pacquiao, and he executes the plan to the T. He did to Pac what Pac could never do to him, and what no one through many divisions and many title fights could do, (Yes, most of those were strategically picked by Top Rank to make Pac look amazing) but that is the point, despite him being a cherry pick, he said fuck you to Pac, Arum, HBO, the Commissions, and all the corrupt fucks that ruin our sport and he destroyed any idea of the biggest, richest, most lucrative fight ever hyped.... And in the process, he became the King of boxing. Yes, Mayweather is the best of the best as far as skills and talent go, he is the P4P#1, but JMM at #2 is probably very beloved most by those who love this sport and have a passion for it...

Great job champ!!!!!

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...ox9s-4-web.jpg

I can't get mad at that. It's a wrap

[kirk]

Not only is this the most signficant win that I can think of recently, it has to be up there with the most significant victory of any fighter 39+ ?

I know thats a weird catagory, but bringing age into the equation, it has to rank up there in terms of old timers achievements no?

[Marnoff]

All the respect in the world to Marquez.

[caneman]

Originally Posted by Marnoff

All the respect in the world to Marquez.

Congrats to JMM! Even if after this photo.

http://i.imgur.com/fzl55.jpg

[speedy2056]

The win was fantastic for Marquez, but a legend?

If one holds back their excitement just for a second and has a look at his resume, you may struggle to come up with any solid wins for Marquez that isn't named Pacquiao. Manuel Medina is possibly the closest to a solid win and even he was far removed from his prime in 2003.

The Kastsidis's and Diaz's don't quite cut it although they were crowd pleasers.

Barrera and Morales are still way ahead! Marquez became famous BECAUSE of Pacquiao.

[Kingkazim]

Originally Posted by speedy2056

The win was fantastic for Marquez, but a legend?

If one holds back their excitement just for a second and has a look at his resume, you may struggle to come up with any solid wins for Marquez that isn't named Pacquiao. Manuel Medina is possibly the closest to a solid win and even he was far removed from his prime in 2003.

The Kastsidis's and Diaz's don't quite cut it although they were crowd pleasers.

Barrera and Morales are still way ahead! Marquez became famous BECAUSE of Pacquiao.

Are you saying Marquez is not a legend? Please dont do this to yourself speedy.

But seriously its an unbelievable win for Marquez and the most potent moment in boxing since a very long time.

[eliqueiros]

The irony is this fight gives us Manny/Floyd more than had Manny won.

But expect Floyd/Marquez just as much. Either way Floyd feels weakness in the air and will now fight either. Most likely he picks Marquez as he already beat him.

I know how Floyd thinks.

[Slickstar]

Originally Posted by eliqueiros

The irony is this fight gives us Manny/Floyd more than had Manny won.

But expect Floyd/Marquez just as much. Either way Floyd feels weakness in the air and will now fight either. Most likely he picks Marquez as he already beat him.

I know how Floyd thinks.

I know you totally do not know how Floyd thinks.

Judah - coming off a loss but it was a competitive decision
Baldomir - coming off the best win of his career
ODLH - professionally KTFO Mayorga
Hatton - okay win by bodyshot stopping Castillo
JMM - okay win stopped Diaz in a brawl
Mosley - came off an incredible win, upset
Ortiz - coming off the best victory of his career
Cotto - coming off a symbolic win against margarito

*pacquiao - coming off a lost. not just any lost, but he was brutally knocked out cold. falling face down cold ala Martinez-Williams II is a rarity in boxing

[Genaro G]

Awesome post. I was pumped when Marquez finally got his chance in the 3rd fight. And there was probably one fan here who predicted Marquez to win. And he did win fair and square. To have viciously knocked out Pacquiao is a testament to the brutal warrior Marquez is. He is a super-star and Bob Arum, Team Pac, and the entire boxing world is in complete shock. Its the way Marquez did it that makes this such a historic outcome. Ive never been so amazed!

[speedy2056]

Originally Posted by Kingkazim

Are you saying Marquez is not a legend? Please dont do this to yourself speedy.

But seriously its an unbelievable win for Marquez and the most potent moment in boxing since a very long time.

King, I don't call any fighters great or legends until years after they have retired because it gives me time to reflect on their legacy. I think that's a sensible approach because people get too excited and say things in the heat of their emotions. The only thing I will say from time to time is call someone a future ATG because it's only logical given what they have done so far.

The term "legend" gets banded about too much and I'm undecided as to whether Juan is a legend but right now I'm thinking no. His resume is too weak.

[I1T2BOX]

Marquez did to pac what no one else had even come remotely close to doing in the last 10+ years...that is the stuff of Legends.

[Kingkazim]

Originally Posted by speedy2056

King, I don't call any fighters great or legends until years after they have retired because it gives me time to reflect on their legacy. I think that's a sensible approach because people get too excited and say things in the heat of their emotions. The only thing I will say from time to time is call someone a future ATG because it's only logical given what they have done so far.

The term "legend" gets banded about too much and I'm undecided as to whether Juan is a legend but right now I'm thinking no. His resume is too weak.

Yeah thats a fair thing to say, but the term legendary CAN be thrown out there easily depending on the situation. He is without a doubt a legend in Mexican boxing. I would say using the term ATG would be more audacious than "legendary"
His resume is not weak either speedy, at the top of my head I can mention Medina, Gainer, Salido, Chris John, Barrerra, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Juarez, Diaz, Katsidis, Casamayor...

Its not bad at all and he deserves to be called a legend mate.

[IsaL]

Originally Posted by Kingkazim

Yeah thats a fair thing to say, but the term legendary CAN be thrown out there easily depending on the situation. He is without a doubt a legend in Mexican boxing. I would say using the term ATG would be more audacious than "legendary"
His resume is not weak either speedy, at the top of my head I can mention Medina, Gainer, Salido, Chris John, Barrerra, Pacquiao, Mayweather, Juarez, Diaz, Katsidis, Casamayor...

Its not bad at all and he deserves to be called a legend mate.

A living legend

[Chex31]

Originally Posted by IsaL

Historically, Rivalry, Fuck you to the Commissions, Organizations, HBO, Bob Arum, and every corrupt official.

But most importantly, it was for his own justice.

Juan Manuel Marquez is an ATG.. He has become a legend, a living legend, especially in Mexico.

But JMM is the type a fighter the Networks, Commissions, and Promoters (like in Marquez' case) exploit. He is a fighter that only the true Hardcore boxing fan can truly appreciate in its full form... The science behind his style, his technique, his ring IQ, only understood by real fans.

So there is not as much investment in him, because there are fighters who are more marketable despite them being lesser fighter, like Ricky Hatton, Miguel Cotto, Manny Pacquiao, etc...

They rob him so he doesn't become a spoiler, they low ball him, because he knows they make the decisions, he has to endure humiliating situations like his disgrace with Chris John, from the pay, to the robbery....

JMM has fought and beat everyone, except for Mayweather. He never ducked anyone. He never said no to a fight because of size, money, testing, etc... He fought young, seasoned, atg's, P4Pers, anyone and everyone...

But Marquez was robbed of early retirement. He knew he had gotten robbed multiple times, and when he realized he was robbed out of pure greed, probably sometime after the 2nd fight, he knew he would do anything to right that wrong.

JMM went on to completely outbox and humiliate Pac in the 3rd fight, and to JMM's surprise he was Robbed, again, despite the schooling administered!

So he gets the 4th fight, and he knows that he has everything against him, including benefit of the doubt, because he needs to perform even better than the 3rd fight. He is also older, he has the judges already against him in his eyes, he knows Bob Arum wants Pac to win because Arum is a greedy fuck, and JMM knows Arum is corrupt, in fact he has no doubts about it. JMM understands Pacquiao vs Mayweather needs to be made according to the Boxing industry, he knows its the richest fight ever... His fans are counting on him, he has an entire country on his back, counting on him... Did you see how many were there for JMM? Not the celebrities, but the masses, it was ALL JMM, so it seemed...

He was getting only 6mil, compared to the 26+ MILLION the man he had beat 3 previous times according to him, and me, and most hardcore fans...

So at the ripe old age of 39, he trains on how he was going to finish Pac's career once and for all. There is even a video on how he was going to KO Pacquiao, and he executes the plan to the T. He did to Pac what Pac could never do to him, and what no one through many divisions and many title fights could do, (Yes, most of those were strategically picked by Top Rank to make Pac look amazing) but that is the point, despite him being a cherry pick, he said fuck you to Pac, Arum, HBO, the Commissions, and all the corrupt fucks that ruin our sport and he destroyed any idea of the biggest, richest, most lucrative fight ever hyped.... And in the process, he became the King of boxing. Yes, Mayweather is the best of the best as far as skills and talent go, he is the P4P#1, but JMM at #2 is probably very beloved most by those who love this sport and have a passion for it...

Great job champ!!!!!

http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopo...ox9s-4-web.jpg

Great post