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Old 02-05-2008, 08:58 PM   #1
dpw417
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Default Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

I'd like everyone's opinions on this match-up of the two P4P all time greats...I know it's hard to draw a conclusion due to lack of film on Greb...But there is film of his top opponents...and those opponents look very good...and there are reports/accounts of his fights...Arguably the two best fighters P4P in the history of the sport of boxing...Let's say 15 rounds at middleweight...Who do you take and why?
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by dpw417
I'd like everyone's opinions on this match-up of the two P4P all time greats...I know it's hard to draw a conclusion due to lack of film on Greb...But there is film of his top opponents...and those opponents look very good...and there are reports/accounts of his fights...Arguably the two best fighters P4P in the history of the sport of boxing...Let's say 15 rounds at middleweight...Who do you take and why?
Greb was an all-time great MW who beat Lightheavies.

Robinson was an all-time great WW who beat Middleweights.

Going with the natural strength of Greb to win by decision over
SRR.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:28 PM   #3
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

For my book I gathered a lot of quotes from guys who saw both fight and almost to a man they picked Greb. They stated that his size, strength, and stamina would eventually wear Robinson down allowing Greb to comfortably take over and win a decision. I would tend to agree but I think Robinson would give Greb problems in the first four rounds or so. Robinson is one of my favorite fighters and I cant get enough of him but I just dont see him beating Greb outside of a very lucky one punch KO a la Fullmer, which is a possibility, but a narrow one. I think at the end of 15 Robinson would be as limp as a dishrag and glad the fight was over.

Last edited by Tom_Tocca; 01-30-2007 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:53 PM   #4
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Greb was never KO'ed, period. None the less with one punch.

Last edited by nfc90210; 01-30-2007 at 04:32 PM.
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Old 02-05-2008, 09:57 PM   #5
dpw417
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton
For my book I gathered a lot of quotes from guys who saw both fight and almost to a man they picked Greb. They stated that his size, strength, and stamina would eventually wear Robinson down allowing Greb to comfortably take over and win a decision. I would tend to agree but I think Robinson would give Greb problems in the first four rounds or so. Robinson is one of my favorite fighters and I cant get enough of him but I just dont see him beating Greb outside of a very lucky one punch KO a la Fullmer, which is a possibility, but a narrow one. I think at the end of 15 Robinson would be as limp as a dishrag and glad the fight was over.
klompton,
Is your book finished? Sounds like very interesting reading!
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:56 PM   #6
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Greb was KOd in his first year as a pro with one punch by Joe Chip. Chip was a pretty good puncher.

My book is not done. But I think it will be well worth the time when its finished.
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Old 02-06-2008, 12:33 AM   #7
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

I like Greb by comfortable decision here. Fullmer gave Robinson fits for the most part in their four fights. Greb has more skill and is just as strong and aggressive as Fullmer.
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Old 02-06-2008, 11:12 AM   #8
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

I will go with Greb for the reasons stated by others.
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Old 02-06-2008, 03:40 PM   #9
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Greb is too big for me to pick otherwise.
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:56 PM   #10
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by radianttwilight
Greb is too big for me to pick otherwise.
Ray was a hair under 6 feet. Greb was 5'8 and not considered a big MW.

I am not so sure that the 1950 SRR couldn't do this. Greb was hell to fight but Ray could also get down and dirty too -he was a fierce competitor, but also a sociopathic warrior which even the great Tunney was not. Ray could be viciously explosive in there --and I am not sure that his multi-faceted, fundamentally sound, and more efficient offense wouldn't force Greb to pause.

Benny Leonard, Tunney, and Loughren saw that body punching slowed Greb up. Tunney and Tommy demonstrated it. I would wager that Ray's work to the body would make a difference. I would also consider that straight right of Robinson's... Greb could be susceptible to straight rights.

I think that Ray had the tools to defeat Greb -the style that worked best with him was based around these:
1. body punching
2. Make him miss and capitalize on that
3. nail him with straight rights

I think Robinson could be counted on to do those things naturally... and particular at age 29, not 36 (which is about how old he was when he met Fullmer).

You also have to consider that Greb would not be allowed to use his usual dirty tactics -and Greb was not quite as formidable without his head.

I'm favoring Robinson, slightly.
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Old 02-06-2008, 05:59 PM   #11
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Greb's more refined than LaMotta, I'd say, and he's got a victory over Robinson.

Robinson was gassed to the point of having to be helped back to his corner against LaMotta when he WON at times.

Robinson also admits he was tired beyond words at the end of of the Basilio match, where Carmen said he could fight on.

Greb has just as much endurance as Carmen if not more. He was one of those kind of fighters.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:14 PM   #12
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by Russell
Greb's more refined than LaMotta, I'd say, and he's got a victory over Robinson.

Robinson was gassed to the point of having to be helped back to his corner against LaMotta when he WON at times.

Robinson also admits he was tired beyond words at the end of of the Basilio match, where Carmen said he could fight on.

Greb has just as much endurance as Carmen if not more. He was one of those kind of fighters.
I think from what I've read that Greb isn't 'refined' at all...I'd guess he is a stylistic anomoly with his speed and attack...I think that Greb was an original...Not sure if his style of fighting was instructed or not...It sounds like Greb fought with his physical attributes in mind, seizing upon opportunity in the ring....LaMotta is a much more refined fighter in his approach...very well schooled pressure attacking style with the bob and weave...and rolling with incoming blows. He was trained by Mike Capriano in the forties...LaMotta would give Greb a fight too!
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:15 PM   #13
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Not doubting that.

Greb had a lot of facets to his game though, from what I've heard.

He definitely didn't go in there and just wing it.
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:17 PM   #14
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by Russell
Not doubting that.

Greb had a lot of facets to his game though, from what I've heard.

He definitely didn't go in there and just wing it.
I agree! Just look at that record!
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Old 02-06-2008, 06:21 PM   #15
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Yeah, his records ridiculous, one of the very best.

Even more so considering he was partly blind for a good part of it.
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