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Old 02-08-2008, 08:26 AM   #61
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Fantastic video. Thank you.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:43 AM   #62
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by Senya13
Muhammad Ali was very far from being complete boxer, that doesn't prevent him from being a consensus Top 3 heavyweight of all time.
And...?

Where did I say that Ray Robinson was a complete boxer and therefore is the consensus pick as the greatest ever? He's both as far as I'm concerned. Ali is not a complete boxer, but he compensated for his technical deficiencies with extraordinary athleticism. Much like someone else you know.
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Old 02-09-2008, 07:46 AM   #63
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

There's a consensus about Robinson being one of the greatest of all time, there was maybe small minority who considered him complete boxer.
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:12 AM   #64
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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There's a consensus about Robinson being one of the greatest of all time, there was maybe small minority who considered him complete boxer.
I'm not so sure I believe that last part. I don't know where you are from but here in the U.S., I've read and heard a thousand times from analysts, pundits, eye witnesses, trainers, and fighters that Ray Robinson was "a complete fighter" who "could do it all"... etc., etc.
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Old 02-09-2008, 10:16 AM   #65
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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I know he was in pretty bad condition past his 50's, but it's good to see Louis speaking clearly and not Bowe-like in that short clip at the end.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:10 AM   #66
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

If it has been said a thousand times, how about several quotes from contemporary analysts from Robinson's time? Those who have actually seen him at his best, rather than later "experts" who idealized his limited middleweight version almost to a status of God.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:27 AM   #67
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by Senya13
If it has been said a thousand times, how about several quotes from contemporary analysts from Robinson's time? Those who have actually seen him at his best, rather than later "experts" who idealized his limited middleweight version almost to a status of God.

How about having a look at what Johnny Garfield posts and getting educated. Johnny is the man on this one, and is readily available and deeply respected.

There's on for ya, in our very own backyard.
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:30 AM   #68
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Well, what can John say about Robinson's infighting abilities and his defensive skills at close to mid range? Or are such things, in his opinion, not necessary to be complete, controlling the opponent from long range effectively is all that is needed to be complete?
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Old 02-09-2008, 11:33 AM   #69
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Well, what can John say about Robinson's infighting abilities and his defensive skills at close to mid range? Or are such things, in his opinion, not necessary to be complete, controlling the opponent from long range effectively is all that is needed to be complete?
Well lets get John to hopefully comment. I do know he has said before robinson is the most complete fighter one could imagine at his very best at 147.
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Old 02-09-2008, 02:45 PM   #70
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Well lets get John to hopefully comment.

I agree! Why he is so "middle-road" gets me.

His choice of course, but he knows a GREAT deal!
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Old 02-09-2008, 03:40 PM   #71
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

The era in which many of you speak of Greb is when he was a declining body and a fighter of impaired vision.

It's a real eye-opener when one pieces together that when Tunney was first battered to defeat by Greb, the latter had already seen better days.

Under a more modern fighting set of rules, Greb would have incurred the same problems with weight as did Lamotta - being less active and the strict weight divisions asking unnatural things from his body.

Greb was not a massive 160lbs fighter, but he was as solid as a rock and sported arms like shaped steel beams.

There has been mention of Greb's dirty graces that came with his erratic style, but it would not be fair to drive by that subject without touching on Robinson's kidney blows, which helped 'Sugar' set up the kill on numerous occasions - both men worked their evil way.

The bottom line here must surely be that Greb is Robinson's physical superior and will make that count in a big way. It will be fought at a frenetic pace and you can only imagine how uncomfortable Greb would make it on the inside.

When one reads of how Greb bullied the 'Toy Bulldog' in their bout, Ted Spoon must conclude that Robinson is going to have to call upon all his great resolve to bail him out, but that's where Greb just about equals him in substance and would see the bout through with a strong gale going the windmills way.

Larger men in Loughran and Tunney, super clean boxers, setting up a fading Greb with tested fight plans is quite a different matter than the speedy battler who gave Dempsey all kinds of problems against an equally brilliant, but ultimately, smaller man.

Robinson is likely to be out-hustled in this one over the distance and on deaths door at the end.
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Old 02-09-2008, 04:47 PM   #72
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

The legend of Greb has obscured the reality in many ways.

People assume that he was a dirty fighter, a womaniser and lax in his training. Yes he was all these things but they did not define his carer. He had long periods of clean fighting, fidelity and meticulous training.
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Old 02-09-2008, 05:01 PM   #73
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

Greb also lost another early fight by TKO when he injured his arm.
After these two early losses, Greb was never stopped again,
even though he faced off against a number of top heavyweights.

BTW, based on my messageboard name, I guess you can figure
out who I pick in this fight.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by klompton
Greb was KOd in his first year as a pro with one punch by Joe Chip. Chip was a pretty good puncher.

My book is not done. But I think it will be well worth the time when its finished.
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:07 PM   #74
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by janitor
The legend of Greb has obscured the reality in many ways.

People assume that he was a dirty fighter, a womaniser and lax in his training. Yes he was all these things but they did not define his carer. He had long periods of clean fighting, fidelity and meticulous training.
--and he trained devoutly for the Mickey Walker fight because he knew how dangerous the Toy Bulldog was. That is one fight I'd have loved to see.
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Old 02-09-2008, 08:27 PM   #75
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Default Re: Harry Greb vs. Ray Robinson

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Originally Posted by Senya13
If it has been said a thousand times, how about several quotes from contemporary analysts from Robinson's time? Those who have actually seen him at his best, rather than later "experts" who idealized his limited middleweight version almost to a status of God.
You are rushing to conclusions here.

I've heard from several people who saw him fight live in the 40s... most recently John J. O'Neil who saw him in Worcester, MA in 1946.
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