Joe Louis the hardest a human can be punched ?

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by apollack

Yes, but Abe Simon was a pretty good fighter. He was a very muscular 255, 6'4", and had some boxing skill. He stopped Jersey Joe Walcott. So if Louis dominated and won most every round and gradually and cautiously broke him down, dropping him four times en route to the stoppage, he cannot be blamed nor does it mean his power is any less. Dempsey went 15 with the smaller sized Gibbons. Louis went 15 with Farr. Sometimes they don't go, or don't go easily. It has nothing to do with punching power.

Abe Simon WAS a good fighter in his day. Sure was. But he was almost impossible to miss and could and did take great punishment. Louis hit Simon with EVERYTHING for 13 rounds and couldn't finish the job until the referee stopped the punishment in the 13th round...Yes Tommy Gibbons
did take Dempsey to 15 rounds but Gibbons was a master defensive
whiz who was seldom hit solid. You can't hurt what you can't hit...But Simon took dozens of flush punches from the murderous punchng Louis
and still remained on his feet for 13 rounds..And I cannot see Simon
surviving 13 rounds against the Dempsey of Toledo or the Firpo fight against a can't miss target such as Abe Simon for 13 rounds...

[HOUDINI]

Dempsey and Louis had similar power. Both hit hard because of incredible hand speed, great technique and timing. Finally the ability to put the entire body behind each blow. As examples look at the final left hook Louis hits Galento with to end the fight. Louis pivots his body weight like an iron door smashing shut on Galentos chin. With Dempsey it's harder to see because of the relatively poor film quality. It's almost like every third frame is missing and you really have to look close. However look at the left hook he hit Tunney with to score the KD in round 7....you can see how his whole body rebounds as his hook bounces off Genes chin. Also the KD of Firpo just before the ko. Dempsey weaves freezing Firpo in his tracks and Dempsey throws two very short almost imperceptible punches.....right to the heart and an ultra short hook to the chin (Dempseys fav combination and rated by Fleischer as the most destructive combo in hwt history). The choice here is Dempsey as the harder puncher of the two but both are on the same page really.

[burt bienstock]

Originally Posted by HOUDINI

Dempsey and Louis had similar power. Both hit hard because of incredible hand speed, great technique and timing. Finally the ability to put the entire body behind each blow. As examples look at the final left hook Louis hits Galento with to end the fight. Louis pivots his body weight like an iron door smashing shut on Galentos chin. With Dempsey it's harder to see because of the relatively poor film quality. It's almost like every third frame is missing and you really have to look close. However look at the left hook he hit Tunney with to score the KD in round 7....you can see how his whole body rebounds as his hook bounces off Genes chin. Also the KD of Firpo just before the ko. Dempsey weaves freezing Firpo in his tracks and Dempsey throws two very short almost imperceptible punches.....right to the heart and an ultra short hook to the chin (Dempseys fav combination and rated by Fleischer as the most destructive combo in hwt history). The choice here is Dempsey as the harder puncher of the two but both are on the same page really.

Right on H...But to me the real essence of the vicious punching Dempsey
that defines him is in the Firpo fight ,Dempsey and the powerful Firpo are locked in a clinch. Dempsey somehow releases his left hand a bit and
without any leverage or punching room, shoots in rapid succession about
7 or so left hook-uppercuts so rapid and powerful that it lifts Firpo almost off the ground...I have been watching boxing for over 50 years and have NEVER seen anything close to this...H, and ESB, check it out on youtube
Dempsey/ Firpo fight and you will see the real Dempsey that Damon Runyon gave the apt name the "Manassa Mauler"...

[HOUDINI]

Yes. Dempsey was raking Firpo with those short body blows. But again watch that last KD before the ko. You see Dempseys best combination, his weave and feints and you see how short he throws his punches to both body and head. Short and destructive.

[HOUDINI]

But I agree Dempsey kos Simon quickly. Louis especially in fight one stood back and boxed his larger foe whereas Dempsey would be tearing into Simon with both fists from the opening bell.

[Theron]

Burt i'm quite interested in what you have to say about this you know alot about Dempsey, I always think about Dempsey vs Liston, do you think Dempsey would be able to beat Liston ? I've always thought Liston would win but he was never really ''attacked'' in the way Dempsey could.