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Old 07-22-2007, 03:11 PM   #1
Manassa
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Default Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

At his lightweight best. Duran? Williams? Carter? Angott?

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Old 07-22-2007, 03:21 PM   #2
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Legend
The Ghetto Wizard.
I'm not so sure. I'd call it 50/50 - Ortiz could deal with boxers nicely, but Leonard was no boxer. He was Benny Leonard, a man with a style all his own.
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Old 07-22-2007, 03:24 PM   #3
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Floyd Mayweather Jnr
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:36 PM   #4
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Williams
Duran
Buchanan
Arguello
Chavez
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:43 PM   #5
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by robert ungurean
Williams
Duran
Buchanan
Arguello
Chavez
Williams and Duran are 50/50 for me. Buchanan, no, as much as I think he's excellent, he wouldn't beat Ortiz. Maybe one out of three fights, but not a peak Ortiz. Ortiz was just plain better than Chavez, and Arguello would be looking at a superior technician to himself, and one that wouldn't wilt under his punches.
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Old 07-22-2007, 04:44 PM   #6
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Duran, Chavez, Whitaker, Armstrong. That's about it. Ortiz was a truly great fighter!
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:11 PM   #7
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Whitaker, Duran, Armstrong, B.Leonard, Shane Mosley
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:20 PM   #8
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Don't know why people are saying Chavez. Could someone explain further?
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:30 PM   #9
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Barney Ross.
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:31 PM   #10
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Chavez has a very legitimate shot of winning against Ortiz. He had the skill necessary to hang with Ortiz on the outside, and I think he'd win in the trenches.

Others who have legitimate shots are...

Armstrong
Williams/Arguello
Mosley
Mayweather Jr.
Duran
Benny Leonard
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:32 PM   #11
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
At his lightweight best. Duran? Williams? Carter? Angott?

Who is in Carter,s resume to make you think he could beat Ortiz,apart from a severely weight drained Williams?
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:43 PM   #12
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sweet Pea
He was better than you think. First Buchanan, now Ortiz? I have little doubts that he beats Buchanan. Ortiz could be a bit harder though. I just feel that Chavez would be able to withstand all he took and Ortiz wasn't really a big mover so Chavez would be able to get to him easier. Chavez outdoes him on the inside just like he outdoes Buchanan.
Chavez was a fine fighter, and I fully appreciate his abilities. I'd pick him over many a lightweight, but I'm confident that the historically underrated Buchanan would beat him (narrowly).

Ortiz wasn't a mover, but could move when he had to; he was all about economy. Ortiz is actually one of the most well rounded boxers I've ever seen fight, along with the likes of Roberto Duran, Wilfredo Gomez, Ray Robinson and Marvin Hagler. He punched a lot like Joe Louis actually, but had all the aura of Carlos Monzon. Ortiz would be using his top jab to offset Chavez while subtly shifting and edging backwards and setting up the right hands. Ortiz might even find himself pressing the action at some point in the fight; he was terribly strong and a big lightweight himself. It wouldn't be easy, nobody beats Chavez easily, but I would expect a decision of around 9-6 to sway in Ortiz' favour.
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:44 PM   #13
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcvey
Who is in Carter,s resume to make you think he could beat Ortiz,apart from a severely weight drained Williams?
I didn't say Carter could beat Ortiz.
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Old 07-22-2007, 05:45 PM   #14
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

I wouldn't give anyone more than a 55% chance to beat Ortiz, and even those are few and far between. Ortiz is one of the fighters where I can't imagine how he would lose, what method he would succumb to, because he was so good all over.
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Old 07-22-2007, 06:34 PM   #15
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Default Re: Who could beat Carlos Ortiz?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Manassa
I wouldn't give anyone more than a 55% chance to beat Ortiz, and even those are few and far between. Ortiz is one of the fighters where I can't imagine how he would lose, what method he would succumb to, because he was so good all over.
Angott could give him problems he beat some fine fighters,Lou Ambers was a tough guy,the Lightweight division is the richest in talent by far ,imo so on any given night A might beat B,off the point a bit ,Ive never really understood the Angott defeat of Williams,and given some of the people behind Ike it makes me wonder ,I havent seen the fight but apparently Angott hurt Ike to the body repeatedly before he stopped him.
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