Khan - Molina Countdown Thread / FIGHT DAY - WEIGHTS: KHAN 139.75, MOLINA 139.75

[Big Bang]

Strange to think a year ago Khan was ready to fight Mayweather. Now everyone's debating if he will beat Molina or not.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Darni187

Na mate I clearly know his limitations, its time he does too, dont try to be something your not e.g Roach trying to make him out as a puncher when he is a weak/average chin fast hands boxer, stick with that and round off around this style.

You don't know his limitations hence your comment about Roach! Stick with what?! He's not what you just described him as! Was Roach not behind Kotelnik, Paulie, Judah and Maidana?!

Originally Posted by Big Bang

Strange to think a year ago Khan was ready to fight Mayweather. Now everyone's debating if he will beat Molina or not.

Surely no one with half a brain thinks Molina is going to even test Khan?

[Dynamito_2012]

Freddie Roach is slowing down. How can you help a fighter with reflexes and defending punches when you can't even control the pads properly. Roach just needs to admit that his whole stable are overrated as fuck. Pacquiao just got knocked out from being too offensive, Chavez Jr got schooled by Martinez, who before the fight, Roach was saying he had the perfect game plan for etc. Roach is getting delusional and forgetful.

[Smoggy7188]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

Surely no one with half a brain thinks Molina is going to even test Khan?

No but I thought that when he fought Garcia...

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Smoggy7188

No but I thought that when he fought Garcia...

Garcia had beaten Holt! He was at World level, even if with some question marks.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Dynamito_2012

Freddie Roach is slowing down. How can you help a fighter with reflexes and defending punches when you can't even control the pads properly. Roach just needs to admit that his whole stable are overrated as fuck. Pacquiao just got knocked out from being too offensive, Chavez Jr got schooled by Martinez, who before the fight, Roach was saying he had the perfect game plan for etc. Roach is getting delusional and forgetful.

I agree that Roach needs to wind down. But to dismiss his body of work with Khan and say he was the wrong man is spasticated.

It's time for a change but it's not Freddie's fault either.

Pac' was too offensive? And the criticism against Timmy is that he was too timid. Pac' was in the 4th fight way more than he was in the 3rd. Shit happens.

I agree wholeheartedly that Roach is on the wane. And that Chavez Jr was overrated. And that Roach provides the usual pre-fight bullshit everyone does.

You're making shit post after shit post son.

[Dynamito_2012]

[quote=Flea Man;14392271]You don't know his limitations hence your comment about Roach! Stick with what?! He's not what you just described him as! Was Roach not behind Kotelnik, Paulie, Judah and Maidana?!


Exactly! Khan can box, as we saw against the four guys you just mentioned. But the only reason Khan wanted to trade was to prove the doubters wrong regarding his inability to take a shot. He can box when he needs to, it's just I personally don't think Roach has changed his way of training Khan since Paulie or Judah. Just because they had success during that time, doesn't mean they will continue to have success with the same style/way of fighting. Roach is one dimensional trainer, he just doesn't know many ways to train a fighter. The only reason he's held in high regard as a trainer, is because his success with Pacquiao, who still fights pretty much the same way as when he was beating the likes of Barrera and Morales. The difference is, Pacquiao has a good chin, speed, and power, so he is able to trade and not worry about boxing smart.

[badlefthook84]

Hunter is brilliant, no bullshit. Classic quote when a journalist asked him what he thought of Froch in the build up to the Ward fight. " Froch is as tough as nails, but nails serve one purpose-to be hammered".

[Darni187]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

You don't know his limitations hence your comment about Roach! Stick with what?! He's not what you just described him as! Was Roach not behind Kotelnik, Paulie, Judah and Maidana?!



Surely no one with half a brain thinks Molina is going to even test Khan?

He was also behind Maidana( where Khan defence was exposed) Peterson(where Khan inside and gamplan exposed) Garcia(Gamplan exposed)



If a trainer cant control his fighter than thats dangerous, his life is at risk.

When that respect goes it dangerous, Khan has taken alot of punishment and Roach has nothing to say in between rounds, for first 30secs in the corner nothing is even spoken. Manny nearly died on the weekend, this sport has no room for mistakes or poor planing.

[ero-sennin]

Originally Posted by Big Bang

Strange to think a year ago Khan was ready to fight Mayweather. Now everyone's debating if he will beat Molina or not.

He and people who don't watch much boxing probably thought he was ready, but truth is, he was far from it. I cannot understand it at all. Even now, after two losses on the spin, including a KO, people are talking about the possibility of him facing Mayweather. It's baffling. If the Molina fight goes well, more realistic ambitions would be the likes of Alexander, Rios, Matthyse, Bradley etc. He would lose to most of these guys too, but he would have to beat this calibre of fighters, before a Mayweather fight would even be worth thinking about. Talking about Mayweather before doing that is like talking about winning the Champions league when you haven't yet secured a qualifying spot.

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

You don't know his limitations hence your comment about Roach! Stick with what?! He's not what you just described him as! Was Roach not behind Kotelnik, Paulie, Judah and Maidana?!



Surely no one with half a brain thinks Molina is going to even test Khan?

Problem with that is; bar Kotelnik; Paulie was shockingly bad and is a feather puncher, Judah has always had a problem where his genitalia are waaay to far up his body (see also Cotto fight) and Maidana, who in general is a poor fighter, also with a poor chin, rocked Khan badly, very badly, he was one decent punch away from being KO'd.

Can Molina stop Khan?? I think Khan's chin is weak enough to be knocked out by a decent punch by any fighter (at his weight). Then again he wasn't rocked (I don't think) by Peterson who is also a feather puncher. I just think, can't teach an old dogs new tricks...and you can't reinforce chins.

[Flea Man]

Originally Posted by Carnage

Problem with that is; bar Kotelnik; Paulie was shockingly bad and is a feather puncher, Judah has always had a problem where his genitalia are waaay to far up his body (see also Cotto fight) and Maidana, who in general is a poor fighter, also with a poor chin, rocked Khan badly, very badly, he was one decent punch away from being KO'd.

Can Molina stop Khan?? I think Khan's chin is weak enough to be knocked out by a decent punch by any fighter (at his weight). Then again he wasn't rocked (I don't think) by Peterson who is also a feather puncher. I just think, can't teach an old dogs new tricks...and you can't reinforce chins.

All of those defeats and slip ups are down to Khan's physical and mental limitations. Not Roach's instruction. That is my point.

I also don't think Maidana's got that bad a chin. He can be badly hurt and dropped, even earlier on by jokers and whatnot, but he's hard to finish. Stood up to a much bigger guy in Soto Karass as well.

[Uncle Rico]

Originally Posted by Darni187

He was also behind Maidana( where Khan defence was exposed) Peterson(where Khan inside and gamplan exposed) Garcia(Gamplan exposed)

If a trainer cant control his fighter than thats dangerous, his life is at risk.

When that respect goes it dangerous, Khan has taken alot of punishment and Roach has nothing to say in between rounds, for first 30secs in the corner nothing is even spoken. Manny nearly died on the weekend, this sport has no room for mistakes or poor planing.

You have a point about Roach no longer being assertive enough and being hampered in his corner instructions. But the rest I disagree with. Most of those issues were down to Khan. Not Roach. He can't get in there and fight for him. Khan's in there on his own once the bell rings, and it seems like no amount of shouting from the ringside can make him stick to a plan...

11:30 - 14:00

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PivUq87j3TE&[/ame]

[Carnage]

Originally Posted by Flea Man

All of those defeats and slip ups are down to Khan's physical and mental limitations. Not Roach's instruction. That is my point.

I also don't think Maidana's got that bad a chin. He can be badly hurt and dropped, even earlier on by jokers and whatnot, but he's hard to finish. Stood up to a much bigger guy in Soto Karass as well.

Agreed, Khan has limitations and they may not be due to Roach's tactics. However Roach does not teach defence well. Even Pacquiao looks so manufactured (with his exaggerated high guard) when he covers up. This is the same as what Khan looked like when he first joined Roach. The Khan-Kotelnik and Pac-Marq III where the fighters seemed to be more defence not offence I don't think was the case. In these fights all the fighters did was not be attacking enough. Where Khan (and pac after sats and other performances has shown) needs to improve, is when the fighter is aggressive and has a KO punch, can he cover up, ride the punches, spoil, counter successfully enough to win the fight.

The only other fighter I can think of with as poor a chin as Khan's at a top level is Wlads. Wlad however has always had this incredible physical (height and reach) advantage over his opponent which Khan, unfortunately in the lower weights, will never have. Also Wlads spoiling tactics (holding and leaning on opponents) can be exploited due to his huge popularity in Germany.

Do you think Virgin Hunting can fix Khan defence up enough for him not to be tagged at all??? I am not convinced...

[Big Bang]

At first I yawned at this match up, but then I thought about it and now for me this is one of the most exciting fights with Amir. It's pretty much change the way you fight or take a beating and retire. There aren't anymore chances for him after this IMO.