Roach: A year to remember

[Montero]

Originally Posted by box247

You could argue he didn't teach Pac and Khan defence or instil a discipline not to get trigger happy and be intelligent figthers and instil a discipline of hard work in JCC.

I feel ya. Part of the problem of being a "star" trainer is that Roach let's his stars kind of run their own ship. He's not a disciplinarian type of trainer; he's always given his fighters a lot of freedom. Just 5 years ago, Pac's camps were MUCH different. Now, they are just glorified workout sessions with way too many meddlers.

I thikn it's too far gone for Pacquiao, but guys like Khan and Chavez can still come back. However, it's ultimately up to them to give 100% in and out of the gym.

[PetethePrince]

He didn't develop Khan properly IMO. The rest I don't blame Roach that much. He had the right gameplan against Marquez and Chavez was never better than Martinez anyway.

[tliang1000]

Freddie doesn't know defense.

[mking]

Originally Posted by Montero

I feel ya. Part of the problem of being a "star" trainer is that Roach let's his stars kind of run their own ship. He's not a disciplinarian type of trainer; he's always given his fighters a lot of freedom. Just 5 years ago, Pac's camps were MUCH different. Now, they are just glorified workout sessions with way too many meddlers.

I thikn it's too far gone for Pacquiao, but guys like Khan and Chavez can still come back. However, it's ultimately up to them to give 100% in and out of the gym.

This ^^^^ I noticed he got his balls cut off, probably his condition doesnt help but the fighters run the show not him anymore and that could be the problem.

[Montero]

Originally Posted by mking

the fighters run the show not him anymore and that could be the problem.

Exactly.

It's one thing if you're a young hungry guy doing it the right way, but for an undisciplined, unfocused star with a big head - Freddie isn't gonna stop you from fucking yourself.

I wonder what happened to Michael Moorer? It seemed that Freddie was grooming him (ala Steward with Banks) but I haven't seen him in the gym in a while.

[gobblock]

Roach is having one Buddy McGirt of a year...

At least McGirt is quick with the water when things go to shit.

[Scar]

Originally Posted by goby

Does anyone think he needs to change up his training to incorporate more emphasis on D? Khan, JCCjr, Pac--all extreme O and no good D. You can only get away with a power offense and good matchmaking for so long. At some point you will run into an opponent that can trade with you and not be hit as much during exchanges.

He's had over 4 years of success, one bad year and he needs to change his entire training routine? No wonder there's a lot of poor idiots on this planet.

[Hatesrats]

Some people blame the OLY's on Roach aswell...

[sbbigmike]

Originally Posted by Montero

I feel ya. Part of the problem of being a "star" trainer is that Roach let's his stars kind of run their own ship. He's not a disciplinarian type of trainer; he's always given his fighters a lot of freedom. Just 5 years ago, Pac's camps were MUCH different. Now, they are just glorified workout sessions with way too many meddlers.

I thikn it's too far gone for Pacquiao, but guys like Khan and Chavez can still come back. However, it's ultimately up to them to give 100% in and out of the gym.

This....................................



I wonder a Roach truly believed that Buboy fat ass had Manny hitting the pads fast and in his prime form again


Shit like that is why his fighters is getting beat, he dont have the fire anymore, back in the day people used didnt want to be train by Roach because of tough he was, and how much he demanded for his fighters. The truth is after Manny got popular and that money started rolling in for him, he stop going so hard, and is clearly having fun out there

[anj]

I can let him off for Chavez Jr losing..He's a B class fighter.

Losing to Marquez and Garcia is not good enough. Both lost in the same way. They had no answer for Marquez's and Garcia's best shots that are NOT lucky shots, but ones they are known for and have been practicing in their training camps - a huge part of their game.

Roach doesn't know the ways of a defensive fighter - no matter how much we like to pat him on the back for being a great trainer.

[gyll]

Originally Posted by Montero

I think you guys are being disrespectful to Roach. Look at Manny's head movement and strategy against Marquez, it was GREAT. Had he stuck with the game plan and stayed focused, he was on his way to stopping the Mexican great.

Doesn't this sound like an excuse? I'd like to buy what you're selling however 4 fights tell me Marquez is simply better than Pac head-to-head. Pac has had Marquez hurt countless times. So tell me, why wasn't he able to finish JMM in any of those moments? Again, that's 4 fights they've had now. Pac has not made any major adjustments in a total of 42 rounds. It took only 2 knockdowns for JMM to finish Pac. So far Pac has 5 over JMM and still can't stop him.

Let me guess. You're hoping Pac can finally KO a 70 yr old version of JMM. Then you're going to say, "See, I told ya so! It might've taken us a thousand attempts but Pac finally got a convincing win and has proven he's so much better than JMM."

[gobblock]

Manny Steward's corpse has more answers in the corner than deer-in-the-headlights Roach.

[CHEF]

its a tough year for him.... i think ppl are putting to much blame on him.... we dont know if the fighter changed the game plane, didnt follow directions, was mentally no ready... there are a million things that could have gone wrong.... while I do think Roach doesn't focus enough on defense..... he is a top notch trainer

[Divi253]

Originally Posted by PetethePrince

He didn't develop Khan properly IMO. The rest I don't blame Roach that much. He had the right gameplan against Marquez and Chavez was never better than Martinez anyway.

[Montero]

Originally Posted by gyll

Doesn't this sound like an excuse? I'd like to buy what you're selling however 4 fights tell me Marquez is simply better than Pac head-to-head. Pac has had Marquez hurt countless times. So tell me, why wasn't he able to finish JMM in any of those moments? Again, that's 4 fights they've had now. Pac has not made any major adjustments in a total of 42 rounds. It took only 2 knockdowns for JMM to finish Pac. So far Pac has 5 over JMM and still can't stop him.

Let me guess. You're hoping Pac can finally KO a 70 yr old version of JMM. Then you're going to say, "See, I told ya so! It might've taken us a thousand attempts but Pac finally got a convincing win and has proven he's so much better than JMM."

WTF man? What is it with the Manny haters (and lovers alike) taking shit and spinning it into an argument?

I wasn't talking about who's better between Pac and Marquez, I was talking about Roach's gameplan for the fight last Saturday and how it was working, that's all. My point is that you can't blame Roach for the loss. Had Pacquiao stayed focused and not got caught twice (especially on the 2nd one, which was very preventable), he was doing better than he had in the previous 3 fights. Roach's gameplan was solid.

Please don't try to turn this into an anti/pro Pacquiao/Floyd/Marquez thing, we've got plenty of that shit all over this board.