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Old 07-08-2007, 11:11 AM   #1
Bummy Davis
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Default Vlad vs Ali's opponents

I was looking at Ali's record from pre Liston to Spinks and other than Frazier and Foreman I dont think any really had a shot vs Vlad that fought Brewster last night, Liston has a shot and so does Frazier and Foreman but would any of them be a LOCK vs the present day Vlad and his Jab, I dont think so, opinions
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:21 AM   #2
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Foreman would knock him out brutally. Don't forget the Peter fights, its the same Wlad but fighting guys like Austin, Byrd, and a shot Brewster doesnt mean that you have solved your chin issues. Frazier would smoke him and Liston would also stop him.

Also, guys like Lyle, Patterson, Bonavena would have good shots to beat him.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:31 AM   #3
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore
Foreman would knock him out brutally. Don't forget the Peter fights, its the same Wlad but fighting guys like Austin, Byrd, and a shot Brewster doesnt mean that you have solved your chin issues. Frazier would smoke him and Liston would also stop him.

Also, guys like Lyle, Patterson, Bonavena would have good shots to beat him.
I lived the 70's and I dont think Lyle,Bonavena,Patterson had an ounce of a shot vs Vlad, Liston would be outjabbed and unless very lucky to land a haymaker, outskilled, Foreman was durable and could wack but did he ever fight a bigger man with a jab like Vlad's that had an arsenal like Vlad, Frazier had his troubles with Foreman but in all fairness Frazier was not in his prime but a prime Frazier (Ali 1) would make a war out of it but get hit by a lot of Vlad's jabs and right hands...I think Frazier has the best chance and Foreman with his explosive power but could Foreman withstand Vlads power if Vlad gets past the 5-6th round, something to think about....and as far as Peter, Vlad dominated that fight and hurt Peter with late power, 2 of the knockdowns were from repeated behind the head blows(Ref should have took a point) and one was a solid shot with Vlad off balance but Vlad recovered well and dominated Peter.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummy Davis
I lived the 70's and I dont think Lyle,Bonavena,Patterson had an ounce of a shot vs Vlad, Liston would be outjabbed and unless very lucky to land a haymaker, outskilled, Foreman was durable and could wack but did he ever fight a bigger man with a jab like Vlad's that had an arsenal like Vlad, Frazier had his troubles with Foreman but in all fairness Frazier was not in his prime but a prime Frazier (Ali 1) would make a war out of it but get hit by a lot of Vlad's jabs and right hands...I think Frazier has the best chance and Foreman with his explosive power but could Foreman withstand Vlads power if Vlad gets past the 5-6th round, something to think about....and as far as Peter, Vlad dominated that fight and hurt Peter with late power, 2 of the knockdowns were from repeated behind the head blows(Ref should have took a point) and one was a solid shot with Vlad off balance but Vlad recovered well and dominated Peter.
Liston had one of the best jabs in history, he isnt getting beaten by jabs by anyone. You need a lot more than height and a jab to beat Liston, even an older one. Liston WILL land big punches, and when he does that Wlad is out.

You asked if Foreman ever faced a guy with a jab like Vlads. Did Wlad ever face anyone with the power of Foreman? No. Wlad himself is not a great stamina, outlast you kind of fighter, so saying that if it lasts past 5 or 6 rounds Foremans stamina may hurt him wont matter because Wlad will be more tired. Wlad will have to work HARD to keep Foreman off, and Wlads stamina is not good when he has to work hard.

Frazier would get troubled early maybe but the huge amount of pressure he would put on would be too much and Wlad wouldnt be able to keep up. Frazier was an incredibly hard man to keep down, as Wlad would find out even if he could land his best punches to floor a peak Frazier.

Peter is a crude slugger with no where near the elite of the 70s skill, but he still dropped Wlad three times. Even if one or two could have been called illegal they still showed how Wlad takes a punch because they werent huge punches on the chin.

Lyle would have a great chance, he was very durable and could punch real hard. I would pick Lyle here. The same goes with Bonavena, Bonavena isnt going to be dominated by a jab alone and when he lands a big shot on Wlad it could be over.

I would pick Wlad against Patterson but you cant count him out.
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Old 07-08-2007, 11:46 AM   #5
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by Muchmoore
Foreman would knock him out brutally. Don't forget the Peter fights, its the same Wlad but fighting guys like Austin, Byrd, and a shot Brewster doesnt mean that you have solved your chin issues. Frazier would smoke him and Liston would also stop him.

Also, guys like Lyle, Patterson, Bonavena would have good shots to beat him.
what you fail to understand , is that Foreman is Foreman. Not Sam Peter. and vice versa.
No one knows for sure what would've happened in a fight between these two.
Maybe Foreman would've knocked him out. Maybe not.

Anyway you look at it. You can't deny some basic facts.
Muhammad Ali defeated a prime Foreman.
but Muhammad Ali was almost owned by Henry Cooper (cooper is frankly a total nobody by today's standards.)

and the only reason why Ali didn't lost that fight was because his corner saved his ass by winning time. and that gave Ali the time to recuperate.

upsets happen.
Hasim Rahman did it vs Lennox
Douglas did it vs Tyson

better yet , there was no such thing as a wladimir klitschko back then.
In other words , a tall guy who's also skilled (and with a super jab).

eastern euro fighters used to be absent from the scene.
Just take a look at foreman's record and see for yourself...
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Sam Peter , ranks amongst some of the most powerful punchers in boxing...(shavers & tua are other fine examples).

Obviously , Foreman's career achievements are way more impressive.
(obviously , Foreman is an ATG).

but no one can be certain about the outcome.
All of this is just based on fantasy , wishful thinking & suppositions.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:03 PM   #6
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Foreman, Liston and Frazier are all bad match ups for Wlad and would be odds on to knock him out.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxingcar
what you fail to understand , is that Foreman is Foreman. Not Sam Peter. and vice versa.
No one knows for sure what would've happened in a fight between these two.
Maybe Foreman would've knocked him out. Maybe not.

Anyway you look at it. You can't deny some basic facts.
Muhammad Ali defeated a prime Foreman.
but Muhammad Ali was almost owned by Henry Cooper (cooper is frankly a total nobody by today's standards.)

and the only reason why Ali didn't lost that fight was because his corner saved his ass by winning time. and that gave Ali the time to recuperate.

upsets happen.
Hasim Rahman did it vs Lennox
Douglas did it vs Tyson

better yet , there was no such thing as a wladimir klitschko back then.
In other words , a tall guy who's also skilled (and with a super jab).

eastern euro fighters used to be absent from the scene.
Just take a look at foreman's record and see for yourself...
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Sam Peter , ranks amongst some of the most powerful punchers in boxing...(shavers & tua are other fine examples).

Obviously , Foreman's career achievements are way more impressive.
(obviously , Foreman is an ATG).

but no one can be certain about the outcome.
All of this is just based on fantasy , wishful thinking & suppositions.
Ali was not "almost owned" by Cooper. It was a green Ali who overlooked Cooper and got caught with a monster hook that would of finished most fighters in history. And he still was able to get up and win the fight, and anyway, it was one of Alis worst performances which isnt what head to head matchups are.
The only reason Ali won was because of his corner? Thats laughable, Ali was able to get away from Liston (are you going to say hes a nobody too like Cooper?) while he was blinded by something on Listons gloves. He also was able to weather storms by Frazier where he was as dazed as he was against Cooper. The corner did not "save him," Ali would of still won as he had weathered storms by better fighters while being as dazed. And anyway, Ross Purrity, a guy whos a nobody by todays standards and would of gotten hammered by Cooper knocked Wlad out.

Foreman is Foreman, Peter is Peter thats obviously true and I dont get what that has to do with anything. Foreman was a lot better than Peter thats what the difference is, im not just speculating on whos better its easy to see on film that Foreman is way better.

Upsets happen thats true but saying that Wlad would beat them because he was the underdog is screwed up. It has no relevence to this topic, of course Wlad would have chances because he hits incredibly hard, but so did fighters back then.

Foreman never faced a guy like Wlad but Wlad never faced someone like Foreman. Foreman faced the far better fighters and proved that he was an ATG in all out wars, Wlad has yet to face anyone that was very good. Peter, Byrd and Brock are good fighters, and he faced a decent number of others who were decent such as Mercer, Mccline, etc but he didnt go against anyone like Frazier, Norton, Ali, or Holyfield. And you said Foreman never faced a tall, skilled guy with a good jab. Ali is 6 foot three and if he isnt more skilled and faster than Wlad your crazy. Eastern Euros were absent from the scene but I would say, along with every other rational boxing fan, that todays heavyweight scene is the worst or among the worst in history while the 70s is the best or one of the best heavyweight eras ever.

Peter hits hard but had the technique of a drunk lumberjack in their fight, still dropped Wlad three times.

Of course we cant tell who wins for sure unless you have a time machine but that doesnt change the facts of who faced who and who looked better on film.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:10 PM   #8
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

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Originally Posted by esp5150
I guess everyone currently boxing should hang up the gloves and retire because apparently you can never surpass the immortals of the past.
Um, no. But to compare the elite of today like Peter and Wlad to the ATGS like Ali, Foreman, Frazier is a joke. They are good fighters but not in their league. Wlad is very good in my opinion and if he keeps winning he might someday be close to some of the ATGs but not as of yet.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:12 PM   #9
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

I think Wladimir would be capable of defeating all of them. The only thing that would make one think otherwise is rose-colored glasses. Foreman appeared to be a crude slugger, Liston was good and would have a chance but I still don't favour him. Frazier would have the toughest time against Klitschko ( at his current ability ) Smokin Joe would be feeling a lot of jabs and would be tied up as soon as his left hook came into range, if he could make it into punching distance at all, and figure in WK is a more brutal puncher than Ali.

The thing the one thing the old timers had over the current heavyweights or any other boxer is an appreciative audience and more respectful boxing writers/ commentators.
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:37 PM   #10
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

with wlad chin i think most would be able to ko him in a 15 round fight plaus wlad runs out of gas in fights
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Old 07-08-2007, 05:07 PM   #11
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

I think Frazier, Liston, and Foreman all beat him
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Old 07-08-2007, 06:53 PM   #12
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Quote:
Originally Posted by I Am Legend
Wlad TKO 1 Frazier
Wlad KO 8 Foreman


Frazier's glass jaw would not be able to handle wlads power, Foreman is far too small and his power too overrated, he would be jabbed to death.
Frazier's glass jaw? What?
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Old 07-08-2007, 08:05 PM   #13
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Default Re: Vlad vs Ali's opponents

Fraizer doesn' t have a glass jaw, but a big powerful fighter like Wlad could very well, and most likely would, stop him.

I think Foreman would knock Wlad out. In fact, Big George would do it rather easily. He had too much power.

Sonny Listin has a great chance too. I'd favor Liston to stop Wlad. But if Wlad fought very cautiosly he could win too.
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