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Old 07-08-2007, 11:39 AM   #1
Swedish81
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Default Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

Is it true or not? What are your personal opinion?
Are there any reliable evidence?
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:38 PM   #2
jyuza
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

I never watched that famous round and never found any footage of it.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:46 PM   #3
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

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I never watched that famous round and never found any footage of it.

Try it on YouTube.
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Old 07-08-2007, 12:56 PM   #4
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Swedish81
Is it true or not? What are your personal opinion?
Are there any reliable evidence?
Against southpaw Jackie Graves, on July 25, 1945, in Minneapolis, some reporter is said to have openly supposed Graves might give Pep difficulty because of his reverse stance. In response to this, Pep is claimed to have tipped off some sportwriters that he would win the third round without throwing a punch, on all three judges scorecards.

This would have been a sensational reality, but local newspapers apparently recorded numerous punches thrown by Pep in that round. (One tenth hand account I've gotten records one writer as saying, "The number of punches thrown couldn't be counted on a clicker.")

If somebody on these boards is located in Minneapolis, perhaps a microfilmed newspaper description of the match could be located in the following day's sports pages at a nearby library. There are conflicting reports about whether or not the match was filmed, but it seems to me that if Willie was planning a stunt like this, he'd be more likely to perform it before a movie camera.

While it's entirely possible that Pep may have turned this trick at some time in his career of hundreds of rounds, newspaper reporting seems to have debunked the third round of the Graves fight as the occasion. Until some source documentation indicates otherwise, this seems to be just an entertaining and oft repeated myth.

The Graves fight seems to have been a bit of a wild bout. Graves broke his left hand in the second round (putting him out of commission for the next four months), but he dropped Wille twice in the sixth, and hit the deck nine times himself, before the referee finally stopped it in the eighth. Over 9,000 people were there, so somebody must still be alive who could confirm or repudiate this story.

Did anybody who knew Pep himself ever hear Willie make this claim? (I've never seen footage of him addressing this subject, only others.)
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Old 07-08-2007, 01:13 PM   #5
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Old 07-08-2007, 02:49 PM   #6
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
Against southpaw Jackie Graves, on July 25, 1945, in Minneapolis, some reporter is said to have openly supposed Graves might give Pep difficulty because of his reverse stance. In response to this, Pep is claimed to have tipped off some sportwriters that he would win the third round without throwing a punch, on all three judges scorecards.

This would have been a sensational reality, but local newspapers apparently recorded numerous punches thrown by Pep in that round. (One tenth hand account I've gotten records one writer as saying, "The number of punches thrown couldn't be counted on a clicker.")

If somebody on these boards is located in Minneapolis, perhaps a microfilmed newspaper description of the match could be located in the following day's sports pages at a nearby library. There are conflicting reports about whether or not the match was filmed, but it seems to me that if Willie was planning a stunt like this, he'd be more likely to perform it before a movie camera.

While it's entirely possible that Pep may have turned this trick at some time in his career of hundreds of rounds, newspaper reporting seems to have debunked the third round of the Graves fight as the occasion. Until some source documentation indicates otherwise, this seems to be just an entertaining and oft repeated myth.

The Graves fight seems to have been a bit of a wild bout. Graves broke his left hand in the second round (putting him out of commission for the next four months), but he dropped Wille twice in the sixth, and hit the deck nine times himself, before the referee finally stopped it in the eighth. Over 9,000 people were there, so somebody must still be alive who could confirm or repudiate this story.

Did anybody who knew Pep himself ever hear Willie make this claim? (I've never seen footage of him addressing this subject, only others.)
It should be noted that Pep fought three times in Minneapolis that year, so it's possible that he might have confused Graves with another, lesser opponent. After fighting close to 250 times in one's professional career, that's bound to happen from time to time.
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:14 PM   #7
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

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Originally Posted by Drew101
It should be noted that Pep fought three times in Minneapolis that year, so it's possible that he might have confused Graves with another, lesser opponent. After fighting close to 250 times in one's professional career, that's bound to happen from time to time.
Right you are Drew, and of course, if Graves himself had a spotty recollection of a match he would be much more likely to recall vividly, then Pep could have very easily gotten confused. I guess the real question is, how, when, and where did this story originate?
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:23 PM   #8
Jack Dempsey
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Duodenum
Against southpaw Jackie Graves, on July 25, 1945, in Minneapolis, some reporter is said to have openly supposed Graves might give Pep difficulty because of his reverse stance. In response to this, Pep is claimed to have tipped off some sportwriters that he would win the third round without throwing a punch, on all three judges scorecards.

This would have been a sensational reality, but local newspapers apparently recorded numerous punches thrown by Pep in that round. (One tenth hand account I've gotten records one writer as saying, "The number of punches thrown couldn't be counted on a clicker.")

If somebody on these boards is located in Minneapolis, perhaps a microfilmed newspaper description of the match could be located in the following day's sports pages at a nearby library. There are conflicting reports about whether or not the match was filmed, but it seems to me that if Willie was planning a stunt like this, he'd be more likely to perform it before a movie camera.

While it's entirely possible that Pep may have turned this trick at some time in his career of hundreds of rounds, newspaper reporting seems to have debunked the third round of the Graves fight as the occasion. Until some source documentation indicates otherwise, this seems to be just an entertaining and oft repeated myth.

The Graves fight seems to have been a bit of a wild bout. Graves broke his left hand in the second round (putting him out of commission for the next four months), but he dropped Wille twice in the sixth, and hit the deck nine times himself, before the referee finally stopped it in the eighth. Over 9,000 people were there, so somebody must still be alive who could confirm or repudiate this story.

Did anybody who knew Pep himself ever hear Willie make this claim? (I've never seen footage of him addressing this subject, only others.)
Great post Duodenum, I love reading your stuff
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:35 PM   #9
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

there is ways of winning a round with no punches with fouls and maybe slips counted as knockdowns
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Old 07-08-2007, 04:54 PM   #10
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Default Re: Pep winning a round without throwing a punch?

I think I read it in Ray Robinson's book, that Pep made the guy miss,weaved in and out , the guy missed so bad that he fell through the ropes and Pep danced and floated around the ring with the guy swinging and missing and looking real bad
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