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Old 12-18-2012, 04:53 PM   #16
john garfield
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
95% of the boxers he faced were bums, and that's being generous.
Embarrassing that you should say that, I. My only presumption is you drew that conclusion from perusing BoxRec. alone, and all Sugar's losses to guys who would have been no more that sparring partners at his peak.

Had you you seen Sugar fight live as a welter in the '40s (as I did), you'd quickly release why he's revered.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:53 PM   #17
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
The reason they have losses on their record is because they were fighting maybe once a month against top opponents. Today, contenders often face overmatched fighters to pad their record and secure the big money fights, all the while keeping their 0.
The reason they have so many wins is because they were fighting illegitimate opponents. The talent pool in boxing isn't as saturated as you probably think it is. They had a high turn around rate because they basically fought anybody, regardless of skill.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by john garfield View Post
Embarrassing that you should say that, I. My only presumption is you drew that conclusion from perusing BoxRec. alone, and all Sugar's losses to guys who would have been no more that sparring partners at his peak.

Had you you seen Sugar fight live as a welter in the '40s (as I did), you'd quickly release why he's revered.
Convenient excuse. Whenever a boxing favorite gets beaten (exposed), his fans will insist that he was out of his prime and never would've lost if the fight took place between a certain time period that they come up with.
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Old 12-18-2012, 04:58 PM   #19
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Alright, then. Even though he beat one of the greatest welters of all time twice in Kid Gavilan.

Name a Mayweather or Pacquiao opponent that would be considered in the top 3 of their weight division, please.
I don't mind you calling him great, but to deny his record is padded is a sign of intellectual dishonesty on your part.

He has a handful of good wins. However, most were just drunken bums that stumbled into the ring.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:00 PM   #20
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
The reason they have so many wins is because they were fighting illegitimate opponents. The talent pool in boxing isn't as saturated as you probably think it is. They had a high turn around rate because they basically fought anybody, regardless of skill.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:01 PM   #21
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
I do think McGrain (a highly thought-of, intelligent poster) posted a report that stated there were more licensed pro boxers in Britain in that era than there are licensed pro boxers today.

So no, you would be completely wrong.
EDIT: Also, I'm pretty sure you think they fought illegitimate opponents is because you don't know who the **** they were.


Has nothing to do with Robinson and I wasn't talking about legitimate in the official sense. I meant a credible opponent.

Neither do most boxing fans. You watch a few VHS tapes and a Youtube video here and there. Then you come here and act knowledgeable.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:02 PM   #22
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Per boxrec. The second peak is the 1950s era

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:04 PM   #23
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
I guarantee you that if Mayweather or Pacquiao fought at the same rate Sugar Ray did against top 10 in the world rated opposition, they would lose more often also.

These guys get overrated to ****. It's ridiculous.
Standards must be pretty low if a guy 50-24 is top 10.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:04 PM   #24
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Idk, bro. Why is Anderson Silva or Fedor considered amongst the greatest MMA fighters of all time?
Anderson Silva.. 33 wins, 4 losses
He lost to an unknown guy from Brazil with 15-10 record
Got chocked out by trash Jap Daiju Takase.. with 10 wins 13 losses.. LMFAO
Submitted by another trash Jap Ryo Chonan.. who has 20-13 record
His best win is probably Dan Henderson.. who has a record of 29 wins 8 losses journeyman record.

Now let's move on to Fedor.
34 wins 4 losses
Beat a bunch of journeymen with losing record.. best wins is Nog.. who has 34 wins, 7 losses.. got ko'd by nobodies.. and never even competed in UFC.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Per boxrec. The second peak is the 1950s era
A chart about the number of bouts had proves what exactly?

Quality over quantity.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:05 PM   #26
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by KO KIDD View Post
Well lets see

he did rack up an impressive 120 something and 1 at his height

he beat

LaMotta, Turpin, Basilio, Fullmer, Graziano, i know im forgetting the welters he beat
He got a bullshit SD win against an ancient, washed up, post war Georgie Abrams that he actually lost in his 78th fight. He also avoided Burley, Williams, Lytell, old Cocoa Kid

Langford & Greb definitely rate higher and guys like Britton, Benny Leonard, Kid Lewis, Armstrong, Walker arguments could be made
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:06 PM   #27
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
A chart about the number of bouts had proves what exactly?

Quality over quantity.
You talked about saturation of participating athletes. I'm guessing you don't know a thing about statistics anyway so I wouldn't bother
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:07 PM   #28
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

you just have to look at it this way, guys back in those days fought almost on a week to week basis while fighters today fight month to month sometimes fighting 3-4 times year. It's impressive just to see that these guys fight so much and have little recovery time, can you see fighters today doing that? Yeah maybe most of those guys are bums but robinson did beat some big names as well.

Overall you just have to look at the hard work and determination it took back then to make it to the top. If you look at it this way, robinson beat fighters after fighters week to week earning his way to the top
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #29
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
95% of the boxers he faced were bums, and that's being generous.
You listen and you listen real good see...

Just because you don't know shit about boxing history doesn't mean it didn't occur. Boxers back in the day actually fought the best in their division on a regular basis. Hell not even on a regular basis... they fought once a month or every 2 weeks because they got paid in pebbles.

Oh, you never heard of those guys? You DKSAB.
Oh, their records had LOSSES on them?! You DKSAB.

Inquisitive DKSAB.
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Old 12-18-2012, 05:08 PM   #30
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Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

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Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Idk, bro. Why is Anderson Silva or Fedor considered amongst the greatest MMA fighters of all time?
Anderson Silva.. 33 wins, 4 losses
He lost to an unknown guy from Brazil with 15-10 record
Got chocked out by trash Jap Daiju Takase.. with 10 wins 13 losses.. LMFAO
Submitted by another trash Jap Ryo Chonan.. who has 20-13 record
His best win is probably Dan Henderson.. who has a record of 29 wins 8 losses journeyman record.

Now let's move on to Fedor.
34 wins 4 losses
Beat a bunch of journeymen with losing record.. best wins is Nog.. who has 34 wins, 7 losses.. got ko'd by nobodies.. and never even competed in UFC.


1) New sport, not a big enough pool to choose from
2) If 29/8 is journeyman, what's 50/24 (one of Robinson's opponents)? Henderson was a journeyman (like Sonnen used to be). He's improved immensely.

Also; Anderson Silva and Fedor have incredibly padded records.
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