Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-18-2012, 05:34 PM   #61
rabmag
Dead Game
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 702
vCash: 1077
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Funny how he wants everyone to answer his questions, yet he doesn't want to answer a simple one and perhaps most meaningful in this ridiculous thread.

WHO DO YOU CONSIDER THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME TO BE THEN? AND WHY?
rabmag is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #62
Hands of Iron
#MSE
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 7,356
vCash: 75
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59
Let me just grab something Hands of Iron PM'd me a while ago


Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
Game over? His list is shit.
Hands of Iron is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:37 PM   #63
Inquisitive
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 155
vCash: 500
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DirtyDan View Post
Not sure what point you're trying to make. Which one of SRR's best wins had a 50-24 record? Robinson beat 10 hall of famers..
Lamotta 83-19 during the end of his career
Angott 99-28 during the end of his career
Henry Armstrong 150-21 during the end of his career, considered 2nd best ATG fighter
Kid Gavilan 108-30 during the end of his career
Rocky Graziano 67-10 during end of his career
Turpin 66-8 during end of his career
I can go on.. but you get my point.. While Silva's best win is Henderson.. whose 29-8 and considered the best he's looked in a long time.
The list that was posted earlier included guys with that record and worse.

I don't even think you get your point. You don't have one. I stated that he has 5% good wins. You proceed to list about five names out of 200 fights. Posting a few names and thinking you've proven something is just you defeating a straw man argument. Obviously, if I say 95%, I realize he has some good names on his resume.

And we've been over the Silva/Henderson thing.
Inquisitive is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:38 PM   #64
megavolt
Constantly Shadowboxing
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 6,678
vCash: 75
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vysotsky View Post
Where is 1915-25 on the chart, is it that huge drop off that is less than twice below the 30's and 50's or is it on same peak as the 30's? I think the quality of boxers was alot higher in from 1915 building through to 1930 than it was in the 50's, MW division included, alot more talent rich.
I can post a more definitive listing- let me go find it

and it drops off quickly prior to 1925 because of many factors, but one being the older the bouts are the more difficult it is to obtain a proper record of it


edit: the bouts also do not include amateur nor bare knuckle

1852 1
1853 1
1854 1
1857 1
1858 2
1859 1
1860 3
1861 4
1862 4
1863 3
1864 2
1865 4
1866 6
1867 9
1868 9
1869 10
1870 3
1871 9
1872 36
1873 18
1874 18
1875 17
1876 26
1877 52
1878 51
1879 68
1880 42
1881 51
1882 142
1883 176
1884 344
1885 379
1886 815
1887 728
1888 635
1889 838
1890 890
1891 864
1892 950
1893 869
1894 900
1895 1333
1896 1472
1897 2055
1898 2301
1899 2825
1900 3533
1901 1666
1902 2921
1903 2724
1904 2747
1905 2579
1906 2957
1907 2851
1908 3531
1909 4089
1910 5947
1911 7086
1912 7065
1913 6804
1914 6874
1915 8553
1916 9229
1917 8175
1918 5474
1919 11517
1920 16155
1921 17812
1922 20474
1923 21344
1924 22256
1925 21107
1926 21619
1927 24286
1928 27262
1929 28469
1930 30928
1931 31182
1932 26160
1933 24473
1934 22159
1935 18848
1936 16492
1937 19958
1938 16825
1939 15413
1940 14626
1941 11524
1942 11088
1943 11498
1944 14909
1945 16289
1946 29688
1947 29299
1948 24324
1949 21742
1950 19048
1951 17095
1952 16170
1953 15297
1954 14695
1955 13732
1956 12759
1957 12403
1958 12777
1959 11850
1960 11553
1961 11211
1962 10712
1963 9680
1964 9236
1965 8817
1966 9138
1967 9151
1968 9319
1969 9148
1970 10627
1971 10141
1972 9325
1973 9790
1974 8855
1975 9043
1976 8563
1977 10601
1978 10093
1979 11751
1980 12252
1981 13657
1982 15096
1983 14445
1984 12515
1985 12684
1986 11255
1987 11549
1988 12147
1989 12934
1990 13331
1991 12428
1992 13017
1993 14162
1994 13621
1995 14144
1996 14170
1997 14694
1998 14063
1999 14861
2000 14859
2001 15765
2002 16747
2003 16921
2004 18247
2005 19332
2006 19772
2007 20540
2008 20112
2009 20563
2010 20584
2011 21611
2012 756
megavolt is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:40 PM   #65
Inquisitive
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 155
vCash: 500
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabmag View Post
Funny how he wants everyone to answer his questions, yet he doesn't want to answer a simple one and perhaps most meaningful in this ridiculous thread.

WHO DO YOU CONSIDER THE GREATEST OF ALL TIME TO BE THEN? AND WHY?


You don't have to have a solution to define the problem.
Inquisitive is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:40 PM   #66
Box702
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by orriray59 View Post
Let me just grab something Hands of Iron PM'd me a while ago. It's a list of all top 10-rated opposition in the world that Robinson fought.

Result was a WIN unless otherwise noted. Sure you can find exactly how it unfolded in each case.

SUGAR RAY ROBINSON's TOP 10 RATED OPPONENTS

Sugar Ray Robinson first appears in The Ring ratings on March 11, 1941. He debuts at No. 7 in the lightweight division.

1941: Sammy Angott (No. 1 LW) (@135)
1941: Maxie Shapiro (No. 9 LW) (@135)
1941: Fritzie Zivic (No. 1 WW)
-- Robinson debuts at No. 1 in the welterwight ratings after win over Zivic.
1942: Fritzie Zivic (No. 3 WW)
1942: Norman Rubio (No. 9 WW)
1942: Marty Servo (No. 7 WW)
1942: Sammy Angott (World LW Champ) (@ 147)
1942: Tony Motisi (No. 9 WW)
1942: Jake LaMotta (No. 10 MW)
1942: Izzy Janazzo (No. 9 WW)
1942: Izzy Janazzo (No. 9 WW)
1943: Jake La Motta (No. 6 MW) - LOSS
1943: Jackie Wilson (No. 2 WW)
1943: Jake La Motta (No. 1 MW)
1943: Henry Armstrong (No. 2 WW)
1944: Vic Dellicurti (No. 10 MW)
1945: Tommy Bell (No. 6 WW)
1945: Jake LaMotta (No. 3 MW)
1945: Jose Basora (No. 6 MW) - DRAW
1945: Jimmy McDaniels (No. 6 WW)
1945: Jake LaMotta (No. 1 MW)
1946: Sammy Angott (No. 6 WW)
1946: Joe Curcio (No. 9 WW)
1946: Tommy Bell (No. 2 WW)
-- Wins vacant Welterweight title.
1947: Georgie Abrams (No. 3 MW)
1947: Jimmy Doyle (No. 6 WW)
-- Defends Welterweight title
1948: Bernard Docusen (No. 1 WW)
-- Defends Welterweight title
1948: Kid Gavilan (No. 1 WW)
1949: Kid Gavilan (No. 1 WW)
-- Defends Welterweight title
1949: Steve Belloise (No. 2 MW)
-- Robinson debuts at No. 1 at middleweight after win over Belloise. He still continues to hold the welterweight championship.
1950: George Costner (No. 2 WW)
1950: Robert Villemain (No. 2 MW)
1950: Charley Fusari (No. 5 WW)
-- Defends Welterweight title.
1950: Robert Villemain (No. 4 MW)
1951: Jake LaMotta (World MW Champion)
-- Wins Middleweight title
-- Robinson vacates welterweight title after win over LaMotta.
1951: Randy Turpin (No. 1 MW) - LOSS
-- Loses Middleweight title
1951: Randy Turpin (World MW Champion)
-- Wins Middleweight title
1952: Carl "Bobo" Olson (No. 5 MW)
-- Defends Middleweight title
1952: Rocky Graziano (No. 9 MW)
-- Defends Middleweight title
1952: Joey Maxim (World LHW Champion) - LOSS
-- Robinson retires for 30 months after loss to Maxim.
1955: Rocky Castellani (No. 2 MW)
1955: Carl "Bobo" Olson (World MW Champion)
-- Wins Middleweight title
1956: Carl "Bobo" Olson (No. 1 MW)
-- Defends Middleweight title
1957: Gene Fullmer (No. 1 MW) - LOSS
-- Loses Middleweight title
1957: Gene Fullmer (World MW Champion)
-- Wins Middleweight title
1957: Carmen Basilio (World WW Champion) (@160)
-- Loses Middleweight title
1958: Carmen Basilio (World MW Champion)
-- Wins Middleweight title
1959: No fights vs. top contenders
1960: Paul Pender (No. 8 MW) - LOSS
-- Loses Middleweight title
1960: Paul Pender (World MW Champion) - LOSS
1960: Gene Fullmer (No. 1 MW) - DRAW (Not really)
1961: Gene Fullmer (No. 1 MW) - LOSS
1961: Denny Moyer (No. 9 MW)
1962: Denny Moyer (No. 9 MW) - LOSS
1962: Terry Downes (No. 3 MW) - LOSS
1963: Ralph Dupas (No. 3 WW) (@160)
1963: Joey Giardello (No. 3 MW) - LOSS
1964: No fights vs. top 10 contenders
1965: Stan Harrington (No. 9 MW( - LOSS
1965: Hoey Archer (No. 4 MW) - LOSS
-- Robinson retires after loss to Archer.

Wins over LaMotta, Gavilan, Basilio, Fullmer, Angott, Armstrong, Turpin, etc. Almost grabbed the LHW title, also. I mean, we're talking about perhaps the greatest filmed fighter in history in addition with GOAT status at welterweight and top 5 status at middleweight, some considering him the GOAT at middle also.
If you weren't so uneducated about this man and the era he fought in, you wouldn't be posting such bollocks. Robinson would clean out welterweight and middleweight today.
& This is why,Great post.Wasnt bout to write or copy all that but this just proves my point further more.Ray was Reigning went unbeaten for huge stretches His first being his 85-0 amater rec with 69 KO's(40 in the 1st round)Don't care who you are you need special talent/skill to pull things like that off.He continued it in pros with 40 fight unbeaten streak till dropped a Dec to lomatta but then went on to beat the legend 5x never dropping another one.After his first L he goes for another huge 73-1-1 to amass a 128-1 Rec against quality opposition. Fought in a era that only had 1 champion worldwide per weight class & there was only 8.Now there's like 16+ divisions with hundreds of meaningless paper belts.Robinson beat legit world champs while today fighters beat belt holders most of the time rather then real champions.Gained Lightweight title & held it for 5yrs,Next won Welterweight title & held it for another 5yrs then Middleweight.He was,old wear & tear was noticeable but when on to fight another 15+ years winning/losing his belts past his prime anyways for a total of 25 years.Let me know when today's so called best floyd/pac can reach 200+ fights & 108 KO's combined lol. Sugar ray got more KO's then they have fights combined ,No comparison.Nobody greater & only few certain greats can match him(Armstrong,Ali,Joe Louis,Pep just to name a few).
Box702 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:40 PM   #67
StillWill
Dr. Eisenfaust
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Oakland, California
Posts: 1,598
vCash: 174
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

So glad mma is on such a downward trend in terms of ratings. Has the absolute worst fan base, catered to the lowest common denominator (as seen here).
StillWill is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:42 PM   #68
Inquisitive
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 155
vCash: 500
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Box702 View Post
& This is why,Great post.

Izzy Jannazzo, who's on that list, has 65 wins and 46 losses.
Inquisitive is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:43 PM   #69
dinovelvet
Up Top To The Head
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 9,880
vCash: 191
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

I like this guy. Hes not a puppet who follows what is written like the masses. Robinson is slighty pushing it though as his greatness is undeniable.
dinovelvet is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:44 PM   #70
john garfield
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 5,914
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
Because it's a red herring.

The logic you used is that of a retard. Legend != goat.
Answer me this, I: Why is SRR a "legend", because he beat allota bums?

This shouldn't be too hard. (I've asked it four times, now) Is your opinion of SRR based solely on BoxRec, a simple yes or no.
john garfield is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:45 PM   #71
floyd_g.o.a.t
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 7,975
vCash: 75
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

I cant knock anyone who thinks SRR, Ali, SRL, Holmes, JCC sr etc are the greatest.
floyd_g.o.a.t is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:46 PM   #72
Inquisitive
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 155
vCash: 500
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by StillWill View Post
So glad mma is on such a downward trend in terms of ratings. Has the absolute worst fan base, catered to the lowest common denominator (as seen here).
Says the boxing fan.

The high-brow, English speaking, literate types that pay to attend events aren't your average boxing fan, sorry to say.
Inquisitive is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:46 PM   #73
DirtyDan
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 1,006
vCash: 75
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
The list that was posted earlier included guys with that record and worse.

I don't even think you get your point. You don't have one. I stated that he has 5% good wins. You proceed to list about five names out of 200 fights. Posting a few names and thinking you've proven something is just you defeating a straw man argument. Obviously, if I say 95%, I realize he has some good names on his resume.

And we've been over the Silva/Henderson thing.
Honestly I don't think you get YOUR point. You're saying how exactly SRR is the greatest, I've stated he beat 10 hall of famers, one of those hall of famers being the 2nd best fighter of all time.. and listed the records of some of them. He's not the the greatest for the journeymen he beat with the losing records, he's the greatest for the hall of famers that he beat. It's simple really. You have two guys with the same record.. one guy feasts on bums his entire career with no one of note.. another guy feasted on bums and some of the best fighters of all time.. who's better between the two? Honestly I think you're ****ing retarded.. got owned in the last thread and now getting owned in this one..
DirtyDan is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:47 PM   #74
Vysotsky
Champion
East Side Guru
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,415
vCash: 1000
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by megavolt View Post
I can post a more definitive listing- let me go find it

and it drops off quickly prior to 1925 because of many factors, but one being the older the bouts are the more difficult it is to obtain a proper record of it


edit: the bouts also do not include amateur nor bare knuckle

1852 1
1853 1
1854 1
1857 1
1858 2
1859 1
1860 3
1861 4
1862 4
1863 3
1864 2
1865 4
1866 6
1867 9
1868 9
1869 10
1870 3
1871 9
1872 36
1873 18
1874 18
1875 17
1876 26
1877 52
1878 51
1879 68
1880 42
1881 51
1882 142
1883 176
1884 344
1885 379
1886 815
1887 728
1888 635
1889 838
1890 890
1891 864
1892 950
1893 869
1894 900
1895 1333
1896 1472
1897 2055
1898 2301
1899 2825
1900 3533
1901 1666
1902 2921
1903 2724
1904 2747
1905 2579
1906 2957
1907 2851
1908 3531
1909 4089
1910 5947
1911 7086
1912 7065
1913 6804
1914 6874
1915 8553
1916 9229
1917 8175
1918 5474
1919 11517
1920 16155
1921 17812
1922 20474
1923 21344
1924 22256
1925 21107
1926 21619
1927 24286
1928 27262
1929 28469
1930 30928
1931 31182
1932 26160
1933 24473
1934 22159
1935 18848
1936 16492
1937 19958
1938 16825
1939 15413
1940 14626
1941 11524
1942 11088
1943 11498
1944 14909
1945 16289
1946 29688
1947 29299
1948 24324
1949 21742
1950 19048
1951 17095
1952 16170
1953 15297
1954 14695
1955 13732
1956 12759
1957 12403
1958 12777
1959 11850
1960 11553
1961 11211
1962 10712
1963 9680
1964 9236
1965 8817
1966 9138
1967 9151
1968 9319
1969 9148
1970 10627
1971 10141
1972 9325
1973 9790
1974 8855
1975 9043
1976 8563
1977 10601
1978 10093
1979 11751
1980 12252
1981 13657
1982 15096
1983 14445
1984 12515
1985 12684
1986 11255
1987 11549
1988 12147
1989 12934
1990 13331
1991 12428
1992 13017
1993 14162
1994 13621
1995 14144
1996 14170
1997 14694
1998 14063
1999 14861
2000 14859
2001 15765
2002 16747
2003 16921
2004 18247
2005 19332
2006 19772
2007 20540
2008 20112
2009 20563
2010 20584
2011 21611
2012 756
Ah the No Decision thing makes sense. Britton and Greb have over 300 ND bouts between them alone. Thanks for the detailed numbers
Vysotsky is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2012, 05:47 PM   #75
Box702
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,288
vCash: 500
Default Re: How exactly is Sugar Ray Robinson the Greatest?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inquisitive View Post
Izzy Jannazzo, who's on that list, has 65 wins and 46 losses.
I skimmed though it was ray's. You got me on this one.But still doesn't diminish my point Ray fought just as many champions & beat them all.What's so funny about being considered the greatest of all time?
Box702 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > General Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013