Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 05-12-2013, 09:46 AM   #1
nostir a
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
vCash: 665
Default Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Lennox lewis had a very long 84 inch reach and had a very good jab, and common sense would tell us that long arms = better jab. but in the ray mercer fight, the 77 inch reach mercer outjabed lennox and was able to push lewis back with it (before he gassed).

another is andrew golota, who at 6ft 4 had a 79 inch reach, yet (pre lennox) he outjabed a not so greatly conditioned riddick bowe who had a long reach, 82 inch i think?

so how much do you guys think arm length determines the effeciveness of the jab?
nostir a is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 05-12-2013, 11:02 AM   #2
red cobra
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: The Sea of Tranquility
Posts: 13,175
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Monzon, for example, had a jab that was very effective because of his long reach, but guys like Pastrano and Loughran deserve special mention because they din't have long reached, and their jabs had to be set up by effective footwork and expert placement. They knew just where to be to be able to fire off their great jabs.
red cobra is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:17 AM   #3
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,264
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by nostir a View Post
Lennox lewis had a very long 84 inch reach and had a very good jab, and common sense would tell us that long arms = better jab. but in the ray mercer fight, the 77 inch reach mercer outjabed lennox and was able to push lewis back with it (before he gassed).

another is andrew golota, who at 6ft 4 had a 79 inch reach, yet (pre lennox) he outjabed a not so greatly conditioned riddick bowe who had a long reach, 82 inch i think?

so how much do you guys think arm length determines the effeciveness of the jab?

I'm pretty sure Golota had a longer reach listed for his first fight with Bowe because I distinctly remember a friend of mine commenting on it. I know he was listed at 81 inches for Lewis. These tales of the tape are highly unscientific.

To the larger point, a few inches in reach is made up easily with timing, footwork and body positioning. These aren't rock-em sock-em robots were talking about but fluid athletes, bending, leaning, ad******g and moving their feet.
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:33 AM   #4
atberry
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Reach means nothing. The way they measure is middle knuckle to middle knuckle across the back. Some guys might have more range of motion at the shoulder girdle and/or scapula.

Also, if you step and slip as you jab, or slip and step into your jab, you're going to counter a longer jab with your jab.

Also, if you throw your jab at the right times, you can beat a longer-reached jabber to the jab. Timing beats reach, not just speed.

Chris Eubank had a 73" reach, yet thoroughly out-jabbed out-and-out jabber Sugar Boy Malinga who had a 78" reach. Kind of like Tyson out-jabbing tall, rangey Tony Tucker, or little Naseem Hamed out-jabbing v.rangey Kevin Kelley.
atberry is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 11:36 AM   #5
atberry
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 4,476
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

You can also position yourself at angles where it's difficult to be hit with a straight, long jab and lean away when possible, and throw your jab at an angle while leaning forward for them to land, if you have shorter arms than your opponent.
atberry is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 12:42 PM   #6
The Funny Man 7
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: here (duh!)
Posts: 3,224
vCash: 1326
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

While reach can be important, as it dictates whether the jab is used to get inside or to keep a guy out of range, a guy can have short arms and still have a great, versatile jab. Take Kostya Tsyu or a young Edwin Rosario for example.
The Funny Man 7 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 02:27 PM   #7
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Reach is measured by a fighter stretching his arms in the width.
Finger length is measured too, which is 100% useless in terms of reach with a closed fist.
Reach also doesn't take into account how flexible a guy his shoulder his, and a fighter can also bend his waist to increase his range.

What I want to say is that a fighter might have a bigger reach but he can be still outranged inside the ring.

Vitali might have less reach than Lewis but he sure outfought Lewis on the outside until Lewis took the fight more to the inside.(great comeback from Lewis)
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 03:45 PM   #8
Anubis
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 808
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

If you want a terrific jabber with short arms, you can have Vilomar Fernandez or Miguel Canto. Both were masterful boxers from long range, amazingly quick with excellent mobility and timing. In the early going, the 5'4" Vilomar outboxed the 5'11" Hilmer Kenty beautifully, and we all know what he did in Arguello I. [I'm excluding Howard Davis, Jr. from mention here, because Vilomar startled Howard and everybody else by turning Henry Armstrong in that one, tearing after the Olympian like a tiger.]

Short boxers with short arms who can jab and box proficiently from long range are one of those things I enjoyed as much as short quarterbacks and slow wide receivers who are deep threats on the gridiron. [I'm thinking of receivers like Raymond Berry, and Danny Abramowicz. Berry's an immortal HOFer, while Abramowicz was the first receiver to catch passes in over 100 consecutive games, with just a 5.1 as his fastest recorded 40 yard dash in rookie training camp.]

Carnera was one of the few of his day to combine a competent jab with surpassing height. Buddy Baer and Abe Simon didn't have jabs like that. Tommy Loughran was able to school Impellittiere and Campolo with his jab, but not Primo. Long arms had best be combined with adequate quickness, technique and reflexes for a jab to be effective, and not all guys with long arms possess those traits.
Anubis is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 03:48 PM   #9
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,225
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
Reach is measured by a fighter stretching his arms in the width.
Finger length is measured too, which is 100% useless in terms of reach with a closed fist.
Reach also doesn't take into account how flexible a guy his shoulder his, and a fighter can also bend his waist to increase his range.

What I want to say is that a fighter might have a bigger reach but he can be still outranged inside the ring.

Vitali might have less reach than Lewis but he sure outfought Lewis on the outside until Lewis took the fight more to the inside.(great comeback from Lewis)
Among climbers and mountaineers, reach is referred to as "ape index".
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 03:50 PM   #10
dyna
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 4,363
vCash: 1551
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Among climbers and mountaineers, reach is referred to as "ape index".
I read Barbados Joe Walnut his hand came to his knees in a normal standing position.

But I don't think it's true when I look at this image.
[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

So he doesn't score that high on the ape index as some make him out to be.......

Last edited by dyna; 05-12-2013 at 04:50 PM.
dyna is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 04:36 PM   #11
Seamus
Undisputed Champion
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Lisboa, Portugal
Posts: 12,264
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by janitor View Post
Among climbers and mountaineers, reach is referred to as "ape index".
J- Do you climb?
Seamus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 05:04 PM   #12
janitor
P4P King
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 21,225
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by Seamus View Post
J- Do you climb?
Yes.

I am a bit of a crag rat.
janitor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2013, 05:09 PM   #13
nostir a
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 174
vCash: 665
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by dyna View Post
Reach is measured by a fighter stretching his arms in the width.
Finger length is measured too, which is 100% useless in terms of reach with a closed fist.
Reach also doesn't take into account how flexible a guy his shoulder his, and a fighter can also bend his waist to increase his range.

What I want to say is that a fighter might have a bigger reach but he can be still outranged inside the ring.

Vitali might have less reach than Lewis but he sure outfought Lewis on the outside until Lewis took the fight more to the inside.(great comeback from Lewis)
yeah i was thinking that both the klit bros dont have the longest reach , yet both are great at range
nostir a is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 09:32 PM   #14
Mendoza
Dominating a decade
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 14,215
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Quote:
Originally Posted by nostir a View Post
Lennox lewis had a very long 84 inch reach and had a very good jab, and common sense would tell us that long arms = better jab. but in the ray mercer fight, the 77 inch reach mercer outjabed lennox and was able to push lewis back with it (before he gassed).

another is andrew golota, who at 6ft 4 had a 79 inch reach, yet (pre lennox) he outjabed a not so greatly conditioned riddick bowe who had a long reach, 82 inch i think?

so how much do you guys think arm length determines the effeciveness of the jab?
Leaving out speed, accuracy and timing, the answer is a lot! The longer the arm, the more range one has. And the taller one is, the harder it is for the other guy to land to the head, as when you punch upwards you lose what I prefer to call as striking distance.

The examples of a shorter man with shorter arms out jabbing a good boxer who is much taller and has a longer arm is rare.
Mendoza is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2013, 09:56 PM   #15
Absolutely!
Fabulous, darling!
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: A cut above my left nose
Posts: 3,225
vCash: 500
Default Re: Arm length and the effectiveness of the Jab

Useful, but not as much as technique, timing or quickness of hand and foot. Long arms most obviously affect the way you implement the jab. A shorter fighter, by necessity, has to step in and turn his jab over to effectively compete, whilst a longer (and taller) fighter can hang back and peck with the jab on the outside, i.e. they can afford to use it as a tool to keep a shorter opponent at bay. The shorter opponent on the other hand almost always needs to follow his own jab up with something coming behind it as he's already committed to a forward movement. In other words, he needs to commit to an attack.

Assuming your timing, speed, accuracy and commitment are there, a long reach can make you very hard to out jab. A shorter armed fighter would need quick feet and razor sharp timing to be able to consistently outjab such a fighter in that manner, and quite a bit of head movement, grit and physical/mental toughness. It can be done, but it's quite rare, all else being equal.
Absolutely! is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > Classic Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013