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Old 12-22-2012, 08:59 AM   #91
duranimal
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Just reading back some of the posts, PK is on the rampage, lol. Love the passion.

PK, you have to admit Floyds ALWAYS been a cherrypicker, even at the lower weights when was at his best. No one is argueing against Floyd being a great fighter, but there's no doubt he avoided some challenges and only taken fights he thought he could win.

Lets have a gander at his legacy and people he missed. Lets start at 130 where he was a beast. Floyd won his first title at 130lbs. Joel Casamayor and Acelino Freitas won their titles at 130 a year later. They were both standout undefeated fighters in Floyd’s division. Those guys were champions there up until Floyd left the division. They fought each other in a unification match but no match was ever made with Floyd. I’m not saying they would have beat Floyd.

I’m not saying Floyd 'ducked' them. But a pattern developed early, that turned into a trend later. When you want to make certain fights, what you do is sweeten the pot(offer more money), like Amir Khan tried to do with Tim Bradley. I don’t recall Floyd doing that. Now remember this at that particular time in Floyd’s life he said after one of his title defenses that he wanted to go down history like Joe Louis and defend his 130lbs title 25 times like Louis did his heavyweight title. This is actually where his legacy was built, at 130lbs.

Floyd moves up, but does not establish a great legacy at lightweight either. He only fights there a couple times. Floyd actually struggled more at 135 than he did at any other time in his career. He tested the water against Emanuel Augustus and had a really tough fight. He went back up there a couple of years later and had 4 fights. Two tough decisions against JL Castillo, another tough fight against Victor Sosa and a dominant performance against Phillip Ndou.

Next up is Stevie Johnston. You may not know this but Johnston lost his lightweight title to JL Castillo. Castillo beat Johnston by a razor thin decision and Johnston caught a draw in the rematch that many thought he won. So Floyd has life and death with Castillo the first time, beats him close but clear the second time. Now guess who is the leading contender? Guess who HBO is familiar with? Stevie Johnston. Johnston didn’t get a shot and was forced to fight in an eliminator against Juan Lascano and lost. That was the end of Stevie Johnston as a viable contender. Another trend. Attrition. Let the threats clear themselves out.

Next up we have Kostya Tszyu. Floyd moves up to 140 in 2004. Floyd only fights 1 fight, against Demarcus Corley where he was visibly hurt for the first time in his career. That fight happens to be a WBC eliminator. Arturo Gatti is the WBC champion. Floyd fights another WBC eliminator against Henry Brusseles. Now ask yourself why was it so important to fight for the WBC belt when Kostya was the RING champion and IBF beltholder. I assume because Gatti was the champion and he was an easier fight than Tszyu. Rarely in boxing do you see a prominent fighter who was champion in a lower division be forced to fight 2 eliminators. I think Floyd wanted to fight those specific eliminators because he wanted to fight that specific champion.

So on to welterweight where the money was (at 140 a fight with Cotto was bypassed). Welterweight is where the real cherrypicking went on. He fights Judah. Now, why is it ok for Floyd to fight Judah in a PPV fight coming off of a loss but it’s not ok to fight Margarito coming off of the Williams loss? Margarito is more of a monster than Zab at 147. Williams is a better fighter than Baldomir. And Margarito/Williams was a dog fight in which Margarito started too late but came on. Zab lost to a journeyman where he started too early and came down. The trend is continuing.

Then he 'retires' in 2007 so doesn't have to fight some stiff compepition. he waits for the threats to clear and for people to eliminate each other. His main concern being Paul Williams and Margarito.

So thats;

Casamayor
Freitas
Johnson
Kostya
Cotto
Margarito
Williams
Pacquiao

Great fighter, but will go down as a clear cherrypicker and with not great legacy. And discerning fans already know it.
Spot on slip

I tried to explain this years back to "Bill Butcher" who was ranting about pacman, i had to educate him on the "Team Mayweather bizzness model" It was & always had been the quest to navigate your way to a date with the HBO Golden Goose in DLH. Just like we see Gennaro begging for a fight with Floyd, it's where the $$$$ are. Avoid the rocks & whirpools.

Team Mayweather employed this stratergy from day 1, it's always been the plan, you've got to get to the top banquet table & more importantly once you've got they YOU'VE GOT TO MAKE SURE YOU STAY THERE!!

But to get there they had to make sure that they avoided all clear & present dangers & letting the opposition/obstacles set about doing a cull of each other. It's quite shocking that this blatent stratergy of avoidence has never been torn apart on here. Once Floyd got the nod against an old part time DLH, his next phase of his career was all about survival & gorging out as long as possible from the HBO $$$$ trough.
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Old 12-22-2012, 09:12 AM   #92
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

The moment he got the decision against De La Hoya we lost Floyd Mayweather the boxer and found Floyd Mayweather the businessman.
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Old 12-22-2012, 11:12 AM   #93
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Floyd cherry picks an opponent, what else is new?

It's not THAT bad of a fight, Guerrero is a good fighter and as game as they come.

I'll watch it, Mayweather will win a wide UD, Guerrero will give it a spirited showing, I'll walk away from the fight not thinking any more or less of Floyd as a fighter, really.

We all know the script with Floyd now.
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:32 PM   #94
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

I'm just happy he's fighting so we can enjoy another clinic the man is a boxing genius just enjoy him don't hate
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Old 12-22-2012, 02:35 PM   #95
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Originally Posted by Darni187 View Post
A prime ODH would of beaten Floyd.
No chance watch their fight with the sound down you will see it's not close
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:08 PM   #96
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

i refuse to watch this
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Old 12-22-2012, 03:40 PM   #97
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
Many people don't remember this and you guys are going to say Iím hating when I say this. But Floyd yanked Corrales chain back and forth and finally made the fight when Corrales had already planned to move up to 135, and was about to go to jail.

Now I give him full credit because fighters have to deal with problems and still perform and it was a great performance against a guy he had a massive stylistic advantage over, but that was just the opportunist pattern continuing in Floyd.
Like when he went to 140 and sought out an easy pay day versus WBC champ Gatti rather than Tszyu/Hatton. Though Hatton later turned it down so he could wait to make more money to get battered.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:15 PM   #98
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Any idea where the Mayweather vs Canelo thread went? I cant see it? Did you create it Skills?
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:17 PM   #99
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Originally Posted by SnoopyboyM View Post
No chance watch their fight with the sound down you will see it's not close
Floyd hasn't ever beaten a welterweight that's anywhere near what DLH was in his prime.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:33 PM   #100
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Floyd hasn't ever beaten a welterweight that's anywhere near what DLH was in his prime.
You say that because Floyd is just THAT good, he makes game fighters look un-game. Simple as. Nobody ever truly gives Floyd the credit he deserves.

When he makes the fights, people run around hectically to watch Floyd loose the 0, adamant that "this is it.....this is the one"

But when he beats them like no other, all the excuses come out, same shit is happening with my boy Broner. Trying to suppress the victory, trying to suppress the glory.

Try telling De la Hoya he didnt come in to try against Floyd, or Coralles, or Gatti, or Hatton, or Marquez, Mosley, Judah, the list goes on and on, they all came in with a gameplan, they all come in confident like the last failed try, and they DO try, but they cant touch Floyd. Nobody can.

So f*ck all the people who try to take away from Floyds victories, trying to suppress his greatness. These are more than credible fighters, they were before the fight, and are so afterwards. Some are/were greats, how can you downplay this....and he all makes it look easy work. Maybe even to easy that the haters come crawling saying it was a "bum" fighter he beat.

These aren't cherry picked plucked powder puff shitty weight drained has been fighters, these are at the top of the rankings themselves, as we have seen time and again, Floyd chews them up, spits them out, and then that SAME fighter goes up against someone else at the top of the division, and gives them a tough fight! Look at Juan Manuel Marquez.

Floyd is simply on another level. It aint no achievable level on this planet, its astral. Pacquiao doesnt even deserve to be in the same ring anymore, the fight should of happened long time ago before Pacquiao became 2nd hand goods, if it happens anytime soon, it will be the same result as it would have been when the fight SHOULD have happened.

Floyd Mayweather - G.O.A.T
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:42 PM   #101
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
You say that because Floyd is just THAT good, he makes game fighters look un-game. Simple as. Nobody ever truly gives Floyd the credit he deserves.

When he makes the fights, people run around hectically to watch Floyd loose the 0, adamant that "this is it.....this is the one"

But when he beats them like no other, all the excuses come out, same shit is happening with my boy Broner. Trying to suppress the victory, trying to suppress the glory.

Try telling De la Hoya he didnt come in to try against Floyd, or Coralles, or Gatti, or Hatton, or Marquez, Mosley, Judah, the list goes on and on, they all came in with a gameplan, they all come in confident like the last failed try, and they DO try, but they cant touch Floyd. Nobody can.

So f*ck all the people who try to take away from Floyds victories, trying to suppress his greatness. These are more than credible fighters, they were before the fight, and are so afterwards. Some are/were greats, how can you downplay this....and he all makes it look easy work. Maybe even to easy that the haters come crawling saying it was a "bum" fighter he beat.

These aren't cherry picked plucked powder puff shitty weight drained has been fighters, these are at the top of the rankings themselves, as we have seen time and again, Floyd chews them up, spits them out, and then that SAME fighter goes up against someone else at the top of the division, and gives them a tough fight! Look at Juan Manuel Marquez.

Floyd is simply on another level. It aint no achievable level on this planet, its astral. Pacquiao doesnt even deserve to be in the same ring anymore, the fight should of happened long time ago before Pacquiao became 2nd hand goods, if it happens anytime soon, it will be the same result as it would have been when the fight SHOULD have happened.

Floyd Mayweather - G.O.A.T
Terrible post.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:45 PM   #102
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

The best fighter that Floyd has ever beaten is Marquez.

A man who hadn't fought at welterweight before, and was ideally suited to him stylistically.

Slower of both hand and foot, with awful footwork whilst on the offensive.

Fighting bums like Victor Ortiz doesn't mean shit. Fighters like Leonard and Hearns would have laughed at the thought of fighting such a poor fighter.
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Old 12-22-2012, 04:54 PM   #103
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Look, BB and other posters.

People are having this conversation in football right now, with Lionel Messi - Is he the greatest of all time?

Some people dont want to say it, either because they want to see and say it is so in the end, when it is all said and done. Or maybe for other reasons. But deep down they know, that Messi being the GOAT is more than just a huge possibility, its very very real. Regardless of your conditioning and players of the past.

These people will delay until it is inevitable, and they will HAVE to say in the future, what they thought may have been the case all along anyway. Whether they like it or not.

Many people disliked Floyd for years, was it jealousy or was it his attitude? Wanting him to taste defeat, until they finally saw the whole picture fully, what he can do and has been doing. ONLY NOW, does he start getting credit.

The fact is, Floyd has already been defeated, like many of us, he has learned from that, the defeats came when he was a child, and from his personal life, he takes them, values them and learns from them, and makes sure he doesnt taste it in the environment he has control in. A boxing ring.

People laugh and hate on Audley Harrison, being rubbish, this and that, a failure, con-man etc etc. But the man MADE IT, thats why he is proud. Thats why he still smiles, thats why when he gets this hate, he knows he has a home, wife and children to go back to, it dont matter. He came from humble beginnings and made millions and in the process won a gold medal. If he rolled over tomorrow morning, do you think he would be embarrassed and ashamed? Its who he is as a person that matters to him. He is loved by his family, and no amount of haters are ever gonna take that away from him with throw away comments and abuse.

My question is, why wait till the inevitable, WHY NOT say it now? The truth is the truth.

Floyd is the most complete and advanced fighter we have ever seen so far, he can do it all. All parts of the game. Boxing skill wise he is on another level compared to some other great fighters in his same era. We must start looking at this, it goes beyond just another talent, look at what he does inside a ring, analyze every last drop of what he does and can do. What he does to sell fights like no other, how hard he works to stay at the top.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:02 PM   #104
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

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Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
Look, BB and other posters.

People are having this conversation in football right now, with Lionel Messi - Is he the greatest of all time?

Some people dont want to say it, either because they want to see and say it is so in the end, when it is all said and done. Or maybe for other reasons. But deep down they know, that Messi being the GOAT is more than just a huge possibility, its very very real. Regardless of your conditioning and players of the past.

These people will delay until it is inevitable, and they will HAVE to say in the future, what they thought may have been the case all along anyway. Whether they like it or not.

Many people disliked Floyd for years, was it jealousy or was it his attitude? Wanting him to taste defeat, until they finally saw the whole picture fully, what he can do and has been doing. ONLY NOW, does he start getting credit.

The fact is, Floyd has already been defeated, like many of us, he has learned from that, the defeats came when he was a child, and from his personal life, he takes them, values them and learns from them, and makes sure he doesnt taste it in the environment he has control in. A boxing ring.

People laugh and hate on Audley Harrison, being rubbish, this and that, a failure, con-man etc etc. But the man MADE IT, thats why he is proud. Thats why he still smiles, thats why when he gets this hate, he knows he has a home, wife and children to go back to, it dont matter. He came from humble beginnings and made millions and in the process won a gold medal. If he rolled over tomorrow morning, do you think he would be embarrassed and ashamed? Its who he is as a person that matters to him. He is loved by his family, and no amount of haters are ever gonna take that away from him with throw away comments and abuse.

My question is, why wait till the inevitable, WHY NOT say it now? The truth is the truth.

Floyd is the most complete and advanced fighter we have ever seen so far, he can do it all. All parts of the game. Boxing skill wise he is on another level compared to some other great fighters in his same era. We must start looking at this, it goes beyond just another talent, look at what he does inside a ring, analyze every last drop of what he does and can do. What he does to sell fights like no other, how hard he works to stay at the top.
I hope an old age pensioner farts in your mouth.
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Old 12-22-2012, 05:08 PM   #105
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Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

**** off

I don't have Messi as the #1 at this stage, but at least he's operating at the highest level that's available.

Floyd hasn't.... didn't want to know Mosley when he was at his best, didn't want to know Margarito, Cotto, and ran like a sissy from Pacquiao.

That's akin to Messi playing really well in the CL, and then before the quarter finals saying ''tell you what boys, that's me for the season''.
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