Boxing  

Forum Home Boxing Forum European British Classic Aussie MMA Training
Go Back   Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum


Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-23-2012, 07:46 AM   #121
Beeston Brawler
Comical Ali-egedly
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: trying to increase my overdraft....
Posts: 23,341
vCash: 75
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

I wouldn't have Floyd in the top 50.

There are lots of fighters even in recent times that are greater.... never mind the single title era and pre-war times.

Hagler
Hearns
Duran
Leonard
Holyfield
Lewis
Jones
Hopkins
McCallum
Benitez
Whitaker
De La Hoya
Chavez
Sanchez
Nelson

could go on and on....
Beeston Brawler is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 12-23-2012, 07:58 AM   #122
craney91
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,474
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Floyd "ducks", why? Because the Pacquiao fight didnt happen when it should have? Because he thought Pacquiao was pumping up before a fight?

How does Pacquiao like that, so dominant around that time, go from that, to what we see now? How does a fighter decline at such rapid rate? Fighters decline, yes, but not at that rate at this level, its normally a steady process until they realize it aint there anymore. Pacquiao is adamant it still is, because he can remember what he used to be like when he was on the smarties. The difference is, now that he isnt doing it, because of fear of getting caught, his mind is telling him one thing, but his body another. Pacquiao on smarties would have taken that Marquez shot and still felt on cloud nine.

Pacquaio looked possessed when he was dominant, no way can a fighter go from a decent fighter in the Philippines who had tasted defeat, at the lower weights, to then go from that to what we saw 2 years ago, and obliterating opponents with massive power. Mayweather can punch, yet even he couldnt get Cotto out, it was never in question. Cotto is a big guy, yet Pacquiao looked a million times stronger.

Floyd had every right to not take a fight of that magnitude if he thought even for one second, Pacquiao was up to something. Quite f*cking right. If you KNOW, your abiding by the rules, to the letter of the law, and your undefeated and you have a feeling an upcoming opponent is onto something, that it could be one of the most sophisticated doping processes the sport has ever seen. Would you take that fight?

Floyd would be more than willing to take that fight now, it is obvious Pacquiao is clean....but since going clean, the man is now a has-been, beaten by Bradley and stopped by Marquez. More important fights lie ahead now, Pacquiao is 2nd hand now, he is leftovers, Canelo and Martinez for instance are bigger fights now, for Mayweathers record and legacy.
craney91 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 08:14 AM   #123
Peter__1987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

^^ Mate honestly I can't even be arsed reading your post.

Trying to convince me Floyd doesn't duck fighters is like trying to convince me Hitler was a nice bloke, I'm refusing to even give you the time of day.

He's a great fighter, but he's ducked a lot of people over the years, worst case being Pacquiao.

If you can't see it, your deluded. that's my last comment on it.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 10:56 AM   #124
byron87
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North London.
Posts: 352
vCash: 75
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Mayweather fighting another limited fighter.
byron87 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 10:57 AM   #125
byron87
Gatekeeper
ESB Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: North London.
Posts: 352
vCash: 75
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter__1987 View Post
^^ Mate honestly I can't even be arsed reading your post.

Trying to convince me Floyd doesn't duck fighters is like trying to convince me Hitler was a nice bloke, I'm refusing to even give you the time of day.

He's a great fighter, but he's ducked a lot of people over the years, worst case being Pacquiao.

If you can't see it, your deluded. that's my last comment on it.
Lovely post.
byron87 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 11:18 AM   #126
craney91
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 2,474
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

I fail to totally see what you mean by Mayweather ducking?...if you cant be arsed reading responses, then your doing that on purpose because you think your opinion is right, and therefore your ego tells you not to listen to anybody else.

He has only got one more to face, and the fight isnt as appealing as it once was. That is Pacquiao. And can you really criticize him for not taking a fight against a possible cheat? Pacquiao contributed as much to that fight not happening also, does he get the shit? No.

What about the drugs testing at first, he didnt want to do the olympic style, what about the whole 50/50 thing? PACQUIAO WAS NEVER WORTH 50/50 IN A MAYWEATHER FIGHT.

So Pacquiao and Arum WERE just as culpable.

Who else has Floyd ducked in his era?

He has fought them all, maybe not right away, but eventually he got it on. How can you hold that against him? Maybe that fight couldnt happen years ago, maybe it had to wait? Like Shane Mosley....not every fight happens straight away. For any number of reasons. Shane Mosley was ALSO cheating, perhaps Floyd knew about that?

If Floyd steps up after Guerrero and fights Canelo and/or Martinez, are you still gonna hate on him?

The argument is BS. Floyd Mayweather is made out to be ducking everyone by the haters, but the fact is, he is far from it and MANY other fighters have ducked out of fights way more than this. Complete and utter BS.

He is the greatest fighter of our generation, ya'll hating, but paying. Stop looking for excuses, just give up yourself to the fact.
craney91 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 12:29 PM   #127
Totus
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by KidJackal View Post
This is a poor fight imo, Guerrero has nothing to trouble Mayweather with if he's not completely shot. I hope Mayweather fights Canelo after this, the only upside being it gives him more time to improve...
Nah he will take on Pac now, reckons Pac takes a low level fight in April and looks even worse then Floyd will beat him up in Sept making him 45-0 and an ATG
Totus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 12:53 PM   #128
Totus
Journeyman
ESB Jr Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Posts: 127
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Floyd will take on a fight with an angle, be it a big name who is smaller than him, a big name but clearly less than him a a fighter, a big name that is past it.

Guerrero has an undefeated record so it a fight HBO will fund etc.


Guys around 140 to 154 which lets face it or all roughly the same size men he wont face next year-

D. Garcia (Recent form is top notch)
T. Bradley (Too lively and prime like)
JM Marquez (On form)
S. Alvarez (Too big and close to his prime possibly)
S. Martinez (Far too big and skilled)


2013-
Guerrero

Then if he does fight this type of fighter will be likely faced-

Most likely first -

Pacman (Huge commercial fight, ATG but clearly past it)

No fight (Very likely for me)

D. Alexander IBF Welter (If he still champ by Sept

A. Khan (Again depends on if khan has a few wins, big good fight for commerical reasons)

All fights very much in his favour but HBO, and a packed out crowd will watch.

Floyd top 3 talent of his own era, such a shame he cherry picks.
Totus is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 01:53 PM   #129
sud2002
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,035
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Floyd will go down as a cherry picker?

Depends what world you live in the ESB or the real one out there.

Floyd will go down as one of the greatest ever.
sud2002 is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:32 PM   #130
ero-sennin
Belt holder
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 2,602
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by Beeston Brawler View Post
I wouldn't have Floyd in the top 50.

There are lots of fighters even in recent times that are greater.... never mind the single title era and pre-war times.

Hagler
Hearns
Duran
Leonard
Holyfield
Lewis
Jones
Hopkins
McCallum
Benitez
Whitaker
De La Hoya
Chavez
Sanchez
Nelson

could go on and on....

I feel De La Hoya get's too much credit, because people focus too much on who he fought and not enough on wins/losses. He fought the best, of that there's no doubt, and the quality of opponents on his record is higher than Floyds. However, he did lose 6 times. Most of his biggest fights he lost, and while Mayweather doesn't have as much quality on his record he's still beaten some very good fighters and most of the time done so in style. The scalps of Castillo, Corrales, Judah, DLH, Marquez and Cotto IMO, along with the zero are enough to put him above DLH. Not that I put much weight on being undefeated, but in a situation like this I think it helps propel him above the other guy. He IS a cherry picker though.
ero-sennin is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 02:38 PM   #131
dftaylor
Writer, fanatic
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 10,432
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by sud2002 View Post
Floyd will go down as a cherry picker?

Depends what world you live in the ESB or the real one out there.

Floyd will go down as one of the greatest ever.
No he won't. He'll go down as an incredibly talented fighter who spent his prime fighting guys when they had faded or who weren't legitimate challenges.
dftaylor is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 04:20 PM   #132
Check_Hook
Contender
ESB Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Liverpool
Posts: 1,237
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by craney91 View Post
I fail to totally see what you mean by Mayweather ducking?...if you cant be arsed reading responses, then your doing that on purpose because you think your opinion is right, and therefore your ego tells you not to listen to anybody else.

He has only got one more to face, and the fight isnt as appealing as it once was. That is Pacquiao. And can you really criticize him for not taking a fight against a possible cheat? Pacquiao contributed as much to that fight not happening also, does he get the shit? No.

What about the drugs testing at first, he didnt want to do the olympic style, what about the whole 50/50 thing? PACQUIAO WAS NEVER WORTH 50/50 IN A MAYWEATHER FIGHT.

So Pacquiao and Arum WERE just as culpable.

Who else has Floyd ducked in his era?

He has fought them all, maybe not right away, but eventually he got it on. How can you hold that against him? Maybe that fight couldnt happen years ago, maybe it had to wait? Like Shane Mosley....not every fight happens straight away. For any number of reasons. Shane Mosley was ALSO cheating, perhaps Floyd knew about that?

If Floyd steps up after Guerrero and fights Canelo and/or Martinez, are you still gonna hate on him?

The argument is BS. Floyd Mayweather is made out to be ducking everyone by the haters, but the fact is, he is far from it and MANY other fighters have ducked out of fights way more than this. Complete and utter BS.

He is the greatest fighter of our generation, ya'll hating, but paying. Stop looking for excuses, just give up yourself to the fact.
Floyd did avoid Pac, But lets just put Pacquaio aside for a moment.

What happend to Paul Williams, Margarito, Cotto, Tszyu? ... All around Floyd and were in title contention in or near their primes what happend to them fights? Or did he instead choose to fight Corley, Gatti, Baldomir.
Check_Hook is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 05:01 PM   #133
slip&counter
Gimme some X's and O's
East Side VIP
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: In that 3 feet of stew again...
Posts: 12,448
vCash: 1000
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by ero-sennin View Post
I feel De La Hoya get's too much credit, because people focus too much on who he fought and not enough on wins/losses. He fought the best, of that there's no doubt, and the quality of opponents on his record is higher than Floyds. However, he did lose 6 times. Most of his biggest fights he lost, and while Mayweather doesn't have as much quality on his record he's still beaten some very good fighters and most of the time done so in style. The scalps of Castillo, Corrales, Judah, DLH, Marquez and Cotto IMO, along with the zero are enough to put him above DLH. Not that I put much weight on being undefeated, but in a situation like this I think it helps propel him above the other guy. He IS a cherry picker though.
People say he lost all his big fights, which isn't true. He won his fair share. Oscar fought pretty much everybody, he faced the guys we wanted him to face (apart from maybe Winky and Vernon Forrest) and we have to look at not just WHO he fought, which shits all over Floyd, but WHEN he fought them aswell. You can make a case for both in terms of who ranks higher, but they're probabily about even.

He has 6 losses (one of those against Hopkins a couple divisions above his best weight and 2 against Manny and Floyd when he was past prime and a part time fighter). If you give the Trinidad and Mosley fights back, which he won and you give him the Sturm loss, he would have 5. For the most part Oscar put his arse on the line. And as far as who he fought and when he fought them, Oscar has arguably fought the best competition since Ali. And that’s saying something. And it's right he gets credit for that. Especially, when you're the moneymaker and the straw that stirred the drink for a long time, like Oscar was, if other fighters were in the same position they may have not taken such a stiff road.

If anything people give Floyd too much credit for his undefeated record. Floyd would not be undefeated if he fought the guys Oscar fought. But I do think he would have fared well enough to still be considered a great fighter. He just wouldn’t be undefeated. Floyd just didn’t make enough of the fights that we wanted him to, and that really counts against him.

Last edited by slip&counter; 12-23-2012 at 05:17 PM.
slip&counter is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 05:13 PM   #134
Nipple
I hate my username
ESB Addict
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 2,671
vCash: 500
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
People say he lost all his big fights, which isn't true. He won his fair share. Oscar fought pretty much everybody, he faced the guys we wanted him to face (apart from maybe Winky and Vernon Forrest) and we have to look at not just WHO he fought, which shits all over Floyd, but WHEN he fought them aswell. You can make a case for both in terms of who ranks higher, but their probabily about even.

He has 6 losses. But if you give the Trinidad and Mosley fights back, which he won and you give him the Sturm loss, he would have 5. For the most part Oscar put his arse on the line. And as far as who he fought and when he fought them, Oscar has arguably fought the best competition since Ali. And thatís saying something. And it's right he gets credit for that. Especially, when you're the moneymaker and the straw that stirred the drink for a long time, like Oscar was, if other fighters were in the same position they may have not taken such a stiff road.

If anything people give Floyd too much credit for his undefeated record. Floyd would not be undefeated if he fought the guys Oscar fought. But I do think he would have fared well enough to still be considered a great fighter. He just wouldnít be undefeated. Floyd just didnít make enough of the fights that we wanted him to, and that really counts against him.
Spot on again, mate.

Floyd's record has been overrated for years now.
Nipple is offline  Top
Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2012, 05:17 PM   #135
Peter__1987
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
vCash:
Default Re: Mayweather vs Guerrero: Deal is Close to being Done

Quote:
Originally Posted by slip&counter View Post
People say he lost all his big fights, which isn't true. He won his fair share. Oscar fought pretty much everybody, he faced the guys we wanted him to face (apart from maybe Winky and Vernon Forrest) and we have to look at not just WHO he fought, which shits all over Floyd, but WHEN he fought them aswell. You can make a case for both in terms of who ranks higher, but their probabily about even.

He has 6 losses (one of those against Hopkins a couple divisions above his best weight and 2 against Manny and Floyd when he was past prime and a part time fighter). If you give the Trinidad and Mosley fights back, which he won and you give him the Sturm loss, he would have 5. For the most part Oscar put his arse on the line. And as far as who he fought and when he fought them, Oscar has arguably fought the best competition since Ali. And thatís saying something. And it's right he gets credit for that. Especially, when you're the moneymaker and the straw that stirred the drink for a long time, like Oscar was, if other fighters were in the same position they may have not taken such a stiff road.

If anything people give Floyd too much credit for his undefeated record. Floyd would not be undefeated if he fought the guys Oscar fought. But I do think he would have fared well enough to still be considered a great fighter. He just wouldnít be undefeated. Floyd just didnít make enough of the fights that we wanted him to, and that really counts against him.
Agreed 100%.....Good post.
 Top
Reply With Quote
Reply

Boxing News 24 Forum > Boxing > British Boxing Forum

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump





All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:57 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Boxing News 24 Forum 2013