Henry Armstrong at 130lbs - Page 2

Rex Tickard · 12-29-2012, 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tezel8764

Armstrong is getting tagged way too often for my liking, De La Hoya throws the whole kitchen sink at Mayweather and still can't make significant contact.

...but succeeds in limiting Mayweather's own output, and by doing so made it a close and competitive fight. IMO, that fight provides more of an argument for Armstrong over Mayweather rather than vice versa.

Remember also that Barney Ross was a very skilled technician and counterpuncher, but could barely do anything with Armstrong.

McGrain · 12-29-2012, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manassa

Infighting - 9.5/10

What costs him this .5 out of interest?

I think Saddler could fight him.

McGrain · 12-29-2012, 04:13 PM

I think Mayweather would lose on points, just lose. I don't think he would get beaten up and I think he might even make Hank look daft once or twice, but he just isn't going to win 7 rounds of a 12 round fight. Engine too good, punches too hard, too many punches.

LittleRed · 12-29-2012, 04:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

What costs him this .5 out of interest?

I think Saddler could fight him.

Armstrongs' tendency to mistake peoples balls for speed bags?

Manassa · 12-29-2012, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

What costs him this .5 out of interest?

I think Saddler could fight him.

Because he's not Roberto Duran

Duran was slightly less a physical beast but more tricky - he'd rate 9.5/10 also - with me reserving a higher number for anyone better who comes along.

Surf-Bat · 12-29-2012, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McGrain

What costs him this .5 out of interest?

I think Saddler could fight him.

This. Sandy was an even more skilled fouler than Zivic!

All joking aside, Saddler has the strength and punching power to whack Armstrong good. He might beat Hank. I also wonder how Armstrong would have handled a series of whacks from Terry McGovern or Aurelio Herrera, both of whom could take a man out quick.

Theron · 12-29-2012, 10:23 PM

Yes Sadler could fight him but i don't see Sadler doing well with all that pressure, Willie Pep as well wouldn't be that great with it because he would find himself defending the whole night and if he had to do those movements he did so very well a lot more often it would tire him out, Duran may have a shot i guess because of his great defense obviously not as great as Peps but Duran has power and great infighting skills all though infighting with Armstrong is not a good idea so i see him being beaten as well...

Rise Above · 12-29-2012, 10:34 PM

I couldnt pick anyone with much confidence to beat Armstrong at 130. Crazy workrate.

Manassa · 12-29-2012, 11:24 PM

I think Armstrong was a more unstoppable force than Saddler in any shape. There would be absolutely no compromise and he would march forward and I just think Saddler would be lost in all that. Zivic was bigger than them both and caught Armstrong at the end of a very hectic schedule where he was fighting nearly once a month and well above his best division (his opponents in '39 and '40 were averaging, let's say, 144lbs - in '36 and '37 they were about 130lbs). That first Zivic fight was close, and in the second he was blinded - I'm not making excuses, I just don't believe those fights were the best representation of Armstrong at 130lbs and under.

Sometimes I think Armstrong is much appreciated for his record but undermined as a head-to-head beast - which he clearly was. Saddler was a terror in his own right, but to my knowledge, he struggled much more than Armstrong did when the opposition got heavier. He enjoyed a healthy physical advantage at featherweight that didn't carry through as many weight classes.

sweet_scientist · 12-29-2012, 11:41 PM

Yeah, Saddler's main strength was his size and physical strength at featherweight, which he used to bully the smaller guys there. Didn't quite translate the same way at 130/135, but I think if he set his mind to it and trained appropriately, he'd still be a terror at 130.

Not the guy to beat Armstrong though... too vulnerable to taking shots and will probably get overwhelmed by the end (though not stopped).

Rex Tickard · 12-30-2012, 12:41 AM

Saddler had problems with shorter men who hustled him at close quarters. He stood too upright and was vulnerable to looping overhand punches. Look at how much success Charley Riley had with him on the inside, for example:

Paddy DeMarco also beat him by outhustling him at close quarters.

Rise Above · 12-30-2012, 01:06 AM

Great point Rex. I hadnt seen that fight before either. If Riley had that much success swarming and fighting on the inside then Armstrong would have had even more success. Great scrap and if it wasnt for Saddler having such a good chin Riley could have won that on a few occasions.

tezel8764 · 12-30-2012, 01:25 AM

Barney Ross was not Slick & Black.

GPater11093 · 12-30-2012, 10:48 AM

I think Arguello could bang him out, but it would be a freak occurance IMO. Think Alexis' uppercut would have a good bit of sucess on Armstrong but cant see Arguello consistently getting the range for it.

Actually thinking about it, at 130lbs, Arguello started to become the complete technician we all love, I can see him making some room for them inside shots and landing some big ones. Really good fight now I really think of it.

lufcrazy · 12-30-2012, 01:18 PM

I think below 135 there's only sweet pea I favour to beat him.

I wouldnt list him at sfw as he never fought in the division.

12-29-2012, 04:13 PM	#18
McGrain Diamond Dog East Side VIP Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 63,255 vCash: 1000	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs I think Mayweather would lose on points, just lose. I don't think he would get beaten up and I think he might even make Hank look daft once or twice, but he just isn't going to win 7 rounds of a 12 round fight. Engine too good, punches too hard, too many punches.
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12-29-2012, 10:23 PM	#22
Theron Steele the Tacoma Assasin ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 3,453 vCash: 773	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs Yes Sadler could fight him but i don't see Sadler doing well with all that pressure, Willie Pep as well wouldn't be that great with it because he would find himself defending the whole night and if he had to do those movements he did so very well a lot more often it would tire him out, Duran may have a shot i guess because of his great defense obviously not as great as Peps but Duran has power and great infighting skills all though infighting with Armstrong is not a good idea so i see him being beaten as well...
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12-29-2012, 10:34 PM	#23
Rise Above 25 title defenses! East Side Guru Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 5,878 vCash: 210	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs I couldnt pick anyone with much confidence to beat Armstrong at 130. Crazy workrate.
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12-29-2012, 11:24 PM	#24
Manassa - East Side Guru Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: ESB since '05 Posts: 9,774 vCash: 75	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs I think Armstrong was a more unstoppable force than Saddler in any shape. There would be absolutely no compromise and he would march forward and I just think Saddler would be lost in all that. Zivic was bigger than them both and caught Armstrong at the end of a very hectic schedule where he was fighting nearly once a month and well above his best division (his opponents in '39 and '40 were averaging, let's say, 144lbs - in '36 and '37 they were about 130lbs). That first Zivic fight was close, and in the second he was blinded - I'm not making excuses, I just don't believe those fights were the best representation of Armstrong at 130lbs and under. Sometimes I think Armstrong is much appreciated for his record but undermined as a head-to-head beast - which he clearly was. Saddler was a terror in his own right, but to my knowledge, he struggled much more than Armstrong did when the opposition got heavier. He enjoyed a healthy physical advantage at featherweight that didn't carry through as many weight classes.
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12-29-2012, 11:41 PM	#25
sweet_scientist Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 7,301 vCash: 1000	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs Yeah, Saddler's main strength was his size and physical strength at featherweight, which he used to bully the smaller guys there. Didn't quite translate the same way at 130/135, but I think if he set his mind to it and trained appropriately, he'd still be a terror at 130. Not the guy to beat Armstrong though... too vulnerable to taking shots and will probably get overwhelmed by the end (though not stopped).
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12-30-2012, 12:41 AM	#26
Rex Tickard Gatekeeper ESB Full Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 342 vCash: 500	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs Saddler had problems with shorter men who hustled him at close quarters. He stood too upright and was vulnerable to looping overhand punches. Look at how much success Charley Riley had with him on the inside, for example: Paddy DeMarco also beat him by outhustling him at close quarters.
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12-30-2012, 01:06 AM	#27
Rise Above 25 title defenses! East Side Guru Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Sydney Posts: 5,878 vCash: 210	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs Great point Rex. I hadnt seen that fight before either. If Riley had that much success swarming and fighting on the inside then Armstrong would have had even more success. Great scrap and if it wasnt for Saddler having such a good chin Riley could have won that on a few occasions.
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12-30-2012, 01:25 AM	#28
tezel8764 Ain't No Stopping Us Now ESB Addict Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 4,805 vCash: 527	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs Barney Ross was not Slick & Black.
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12-30-2012, 10:48 AM	#29
GPater11093 Barry East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland Posts: 26,118 vCash: 836	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs I think Arguello could bang him out, but it would be a freak occurance IMO. Think Alexis' uppercut would have a good bit of sucess on Armstrong but cant see Arguello consistently getting the range for it. Actually thinking about it, at 130lbs, Arguello started to become the complete technician we all love, I can see him making some room for them inside shots and landing some big ones. Really good fight now I really think of it.
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12-30-2012, 01:18 PM	#30
lufcrazy requiescat in pace East Side VIP Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: England, Up North Posts: 22,711 vCash: 330	Re: Henry Armstrong at 130lbs I think below 135 there's only sweet pea I favour to beat him. I wouldnt list him at sfw as he never fought in the division.
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