Donaire vs John next year

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

Holy hell... The new JuanMa? When he's been fighting top contenders the last two years, brutally taking out Montiel and Nishioka, the two best in their respective divisions?

Those sort of comments will make people think you've got a learning disability.

The Rigo fight is a nothing, quite frankly. The guy has done nothing to merit a shot. The one argument you have is with the Mares fight, but that's on Arum.

Omar Narvaez is not a top contender in the weight class there fight took place

I will question you on Nishioka, i do not believe he is as good as Rigo, in-fact not nearly.

Donaire has had 3 signature fights (Darchyinian, Montiel & Nishioka), for a guy who has his ability with the fighters around him, his resume looks average, Montiel has done nothing since, Nishioka IMHO aint that good, therefore Vic Darchynian way back in what 2008? remains his signature win! do you think you would have been saying that when he took Vic to bits back then?

The new Juanma is harsh ill admit, and thats simply because Juanma was over rated, but the concept is the same, Donaire is producing revenue for Top Rank as a business because he's taking lesser fights on! the reason i get angry is because i want to see Donaire let off the leash, and its one hand picked guy after the next.

Chris John is done!

Rigonduex, Mares, Santa Cruz, Moreno, Gamboa even! why not any of these guys ??? there all tremendous fights to make, he has Rigo and Donaire under the same roof, make the dam fight! its Gamboa Juanma on repeat!

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

Omar Narvaez is not a top contender in the weight class there fight took place

Significantly better than anyone Rigondeaux has beaten.

I will question you on Nishioka, i do not believe he is as good as Rigo, in-fact not nearly.

Seriously? Based on what? Years as a top amateur and mediocre performances as a pro? Compared to years unbeaten as The Man in his division? What balls.

Donaire has had 3 signature fights (Darchyinian, Montiel & Nishioka), for a guy who has his ability with the fighters around him, his resume looks average, Montiel has done nothing since, Nishioka IMHO aint that good, therefore Vic Darchynian way back in what 2008? remains his signature win! do you think you would have been saying that when he took Vic to bits back then?

You can do that to anyone's resume. Rigo's best win is over Cordoba, who got splattered by Bernard Dunne. And to be so dismissive marks out your (apparent) agenda. Grow up.

The new Juanma is harsh ill admit, and thats simply because Juanma was over rated, but the concept is the same, Donaire is producing revenue for Top Rank as a business because he's taking lesser fights on! the reason i get angry is because i want to see Donaire let off the leash, and its one hand picked guy after the next.

He's beaten better guys than Rigo this year alone. If you're going to seriously deny that, you're just being selective.

Chris John is done!

He's still undefeated and one of the longest reigning champions in the world. It's not a terrible fight and, once again, still a better opponent than Rigo. That's just a fact.

Rigonduex

It's not that good a fight. Rigo's very skittish as a pro and would likely fight negative when he realised Donaire's faster and better than him.

Mares

We know why that's not happening. Nonito said he wants it.

Santa Cruz

It's a good fight in a year or so. Not right now.

Moreno

Just lost to Mares.

Gamboa even!

Really?

why not any of these guys ??? there all tremendous fights to make, he has Rigo and Donaire under the same roof, make the dam fight! its Gamboa Juanma on repeat!

So because it's not the fight you want, it's bad?

[ImElvis666]

You have to ask yourself, why does Bob Arum not want to make the fight? What rationale is behind it other than, he doesn't think Donaire can beat him and he's a lot more profitable to him as champ than Rigo.

It's win/win for Arum, he still has a champ in his stable but if he loses to John he's lost a champ. You can say what has Rigo done etc etc but it's like Golovkin, the proof is in the pudding and nobody wants to get in the ring with him.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

Significantly better than anyone Rigondeaux has beaten.



Seriously? Based on what? Years as a top amateur and mediocre performances as a pro? Compared to years unbeaten as The Man in his division? What balls.



You can do that to anyone's resume. Rigo's best win is over Cordoba, who got splattered by Bernard Dunne. And to be so dismissive marks out your (apparent) agenda. Grow up.



He's beaten better guys than Rigo this year alone. If you're going to seriously deny that, you're just being selective.



He's still undefeated and one of the longest reigning champions in the world. It's not a terrible fight and, once again, still a better opponent than Rigo. That's just a fact.



It's not that good a fight. Rigo's very skittish as a pro and would likely fight negative when he realised Donaire's faster and better than him.



We know why that's not happening. Nonito said he wants it.



It's a good fight in a year or so. Not right now.



Just lost to Mares.



Really?



So because it's not the fight you want, it's bad?

Rigondeaux would have little problems with Narvaez thats a fact!

Based on what i said about Nishioka, he's just not that good, thats my opinion, Rigondeaux is better in every area.

Breaking down "anyone's" resume, is not the same as breaking down an extraordinary talented fighters resume is it? ill reiterate what i said, Donaire's talents up against his resume, makes his resume look average. He hasnt kicked on since Montiel, his best win still remains Darchynian!

Im not questioning him against anybody, specially Guillermo Rigondeaux, im questioning him against himself, with his ability he should be getting the bigger fights, he's in too many predictable fights where he's won before getting in the ring, there is marquee names in the divisions make the dam fights!

Chris John is undefeated because he's been hiding in Indonesia and the Philippines for nearly half a decade, he's a world champion in title but not in stature, Donaire will be way to fresh for him.

Gamboa - yes seriously, he himself was willing to jump from 126 to 135 or even 140 for Rios, why not throw Donaire up to 130 and make the fight now, id much rather see Donaire going up with a massive question mark on his back than the question mark being on Chris John. Gamboa is still prime, why not make the fight

Are you telling me you believe Donaire would take care of Leo Santa Cruz the way he did Nishioka ??

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by ImElvis666

You have to ask yourself, why does Bob Arum not want to make the fight? What rationale is behind it other than, he doesn't think Donaire can beat him and he's a lot more profitable to him as champ than Rigo.

It's win/win for Arum, he still has a champ in his stable but if he loses to John he's lost a champ. You can say what has Rigo done etc etc but it's like Golovkin, the proof is in the pudding and nobody wants to get in the ring with him.

Genuinely stupid logic.

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

Rigondeaux would have little problems with Narvaez thats a fact!

Based on what i said about Nishioka, he's just not that good, thats my opinion, Rigondeaux is better in every area.

Breaking down "anyone's" resume, is not the same as breaking down an extraordinary talented fighters resume is it? ill reiterate what i said, Donaire's talents up against his resume, makes his resume look average. He hasnt kicked on since Montiel, his best win still remains Darchynian!

Im not questioning him against anybody, specially Guillermo Rigondeaux, im questioning him against himself, with his ability he should be getting the bigger fights, he's in too many predictable fights where he's won before getting in the ring, there is marquee names in the divisions make the dam fights!

Chris John is undefeated because he's been hiding in Indonesia and the Philippines for nearly half a decade, he's a world champion in title but not in stature, Donaire will be way to fresh for him.

Gamboa - yes seriously, he himself was willing to jump from 126 to 135 or even 140 for Rios, why not throw Donaire up to 130 and make the fight now, id much rather see Donaire going up with a massive question mark on his back than the question mark being on Chris John. Gamboa is still prime, why not make the fight

Are you telling me you believe Donaire would take care of Leo Santa Cruz the way he did Nishioka ??

Donaire would beat every single guy in and around his weight. He's a phenom.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

Donaire would beat every single guy in and around his weight. He's a phenom.

And there we have it

Intent is revealed

[ImElvis666]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

Genuinely stupid logic.

Give me something better than that please.

[Lilo]

Nothing wrong with a John fight but would obviously prefer fights with Mares and Rigondeaux. I don't understand why the Nishioka win is getting undersold... Was a fantastic win and a savage KO.

Did someone say Donaire hasn't done anything since Montiel? Only won 5 in 14 months, unified a higher weight division and is fighter of the year

[Boxed Ears]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

I very much doubt it happens unless the reefer and senility hit Arum harder than he can take. That said, if it does happen, unfortunately, I don't think your average "fan" here is capable of understanding how great a match this would be.

Only on rare occasions do I hate being right, but...

[dftaylor]

Originally Posted by thewinfella

And there we have it

Intent is revealed

What, I actually think that. It's not some sort of man-crush. Please tell me how these guys beat Donaire's particular blend of speed, skill and power? He's a nightmare in his division.

Originally Posted by ImElvis666

Give me something better than that please.

You didn't give me anything good to start with. But I think it's the other way around - Arum doesn't want to shoot his (substantial) investment in Rigo in the foot. He will get splattered by Donaire, no doubt about it.

You also have to question: Nonito has battered every single guy who's tried to engage with him, and he's had the defensive minded guys on the run and not dropped many rounds in the process.

What exactly is Rigo, who's clearly chinny, going to bring?

[ImElvis666]

Originally Posted by dftaylor

What, I actually think that. It's not some sort of man-crush. Please tell me how these guys beat Donaire's particular blend of speed, skill and power? He's a nightmare in his division.



You didn't give me anything good to start with. But I think it's the other way around - Arum doesn't want to shoot his (substantial) investment in Rigo in the foot. He will get splattered by Donaire, no doubt about it.

You also have to question: Nonito has battered every single guy who's tried to engage with him, and he's had the defensive minded guys on the run and not dropped many rounds in the process.

What exactly is Rigo, who's clearly chinny, going to bring?

Investment in Rigo? Arum doesn't give a flying fuck about Rigo. Gary Hyde had to cough up money to make Rigo's only big fight, that was against Ramos. Top Ranks had nothing to do with that fight.

He's not willing to invest in Rigo and pay the money to get him decent opponents. Describing Rigo as a substantial investment is laughable.

And it's not like Arum had any issue about feeding his own to his money makers before is it? He put Vazquez Jr in with Donaire.

There's a reason Larry Merchant mentioned Rigondeaux to Donaire and his name is mentioned in every interview with Donaire. People want to see the fight.

Who you think is going to win is another discussion. I'm talking about the rationale behind Arum's reluctance to make the fight.

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Lilo

Nothing wrong with a John fight but would obviously prefer fights with Mares and Rigondeaux. I don't understand why the Nishioka win is getting undersold... Was a fantastic win and a savage KO.

Did someone say Donaire hasn't done anything since Montiel? Only won 5 in 14 months, unified a higher weight division and is fighter of the year

You have mis-read what i said Sir,

I said i dont believe he has kicked on since Montiel, and im not understating the Nishioka win, it is classified as a signature win IMO, i just said i believe Nishioka aint that good. Donaire done what was expected of him in clinical fashion, but nobody can say they didnt see it coming!

Let me state this, i believe Donaire to be an extraordinary talent, but his resume does not match that of a special fighter, and its getting worse, the fghts are all there to be made and his promotional company will not make them, why ???, we all know why!

This would not have happened in yester year, Donaire would have fought and cleaned out divisions from SFLW to SBW by now, he has that type of ability, its a dis-service to him and his fans having him knock over outgunned and out skilled guys.

Gamboa may be coming to the end at the very top, throw them in together, thats a mega fight, why the hell not, make the Salido fight while were on the subject, why the hell not!

[thewinfella]

[quote=dftaylor;14484240]What, I actually think that. It's not some sort of man-crush. Please tell me how these guys beat Donaire's particular blend of speed, skill and power? He's a nightmare in his division.

You said it not me

Read my posts again, no-where does it say i believe any of the above will beat Doniare

[thewinfella]

Originally Posted by Boxed Ears

Only on rare occasions do I hate being right, but...

I dont believe "AVERAGE FANS" are having this debate!