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Old 12-30-2012, 05:41 PM   #46
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by TFFP View Post
How do you think he TKO's Garcia, PK? I'm not sure Amir displayed much ability to hurt the guy when he was at his sharpest unless you noticed something I didn't, and he seems to decline in power rapidly, IMO. See Maidana fight where he landed a perfectly delivered body shot early, but his punching technique turns to shit when he tires and Maidana started walking through stuff more recklessly. I think there is decent evidence he punches well early but his power fades worse than most and he never really bothered Garcia by his power early.

Also, I think there were warning signs before Amir was even hurt, PK. He was catching a few left-hooks prior to the one that put him down. There were signs Garcia was slightly ad******g to the punches; basically as he said...he started to see them a little better and judge when he was able to throw with Khan and take a chance. It's always a chance when you exchange with a guy with better handspeed, but if you think you've got the ability to take his punches and he may not take yours its a worthwhile exchange and I think thats what we'd see more of.

It'd be difficult for Khan to fight a faultless 12 rounds. Plus as much as we talk about how Amir could improve his gameplan for the fight, we don't often talk about how it might actually have progressed. If Garcia can adjust that quickly whats to say he's not the stronger late when he has the full picture in front of him? Khan would have to use a lot of energy to implement this faultless movement based gameplan people suggest.
At a guess, cuts.

Garcia was pretty badly marked up after only a couple of rounds, you could see it happening on cuts, or a corner retirement, Angel wont want to see him getting busted up for 12 rounds imo.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:44 PM   #47
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by TFFP View Post
How do you think he TKO's Garcia, PK? I'm not sure Amir displayed much ability to hurt the guy when he was at his sharpest unless you noticed something I didn't, and he seems to decline in power rapidly, IMO. See Maidana fight where he landed a perfectly delivered body shot early, but his punching technique turns to shit when he tires and Maidana started walking through stuff more recklessly. I think there is decent evidence he punches well early but his power fades worse than most and he never really bothered Garcia by his power early.

Also, I think there were warning signs before Amir was even hurt, PK. He was catching a few left-hooks prior to the one that put him down. There were signs Garcia was slightly ad******g to the punches; basically as he said...he started to see them a little better and judge when he was able to throw with Khan and take a chance. It's always a chance when you exchange with a guy with better handspeed, but if you think you've got the ability to take his punches and he may not take yours its a worthwhile exchange and I think thats what we'd see more of.

It'd be difficult for Khan to fight a faultless 12 rounds. Plus as much as we talk about how Amir could improve his gameplan for the fight, we don't often talk about how it might actually have progressed. If Garcia can adjust that quickly whats to say he's not the stronger late when he has the full picture in front of him? Khan would have to use a lot of energy to implement this faultless movement based gameplan people suggest.
So do you think Garcia will beat Khan in the rematch..?
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:47 PM   #48
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Thats wishful thinking, Earl. They're never pulling Garcia out of that fight unless he's beaten every step of the way. Why would they? He's shown he can pull that fight around with a single left-hook. Or at least change the momentum in the fight pretty severely. Contrary to what people have said, he wasn't getting smashed to bits. He was trying to plod into a range he could counter at, which wasn't easy when Khan was sharp, and he had decent success after the opening 5 minutes or so in implementing that. He was getting some joy, and watching it back you can just see he's getting closer and closer to timing Khan.

I don't really like how we pin it all down to Khan fighting the wrong gameplan, exchanging too much, getting too reckless or whatever. Looking beyond the obvious of Khan being ahead and getting caught with a big shot its unfair not to consider the adjustments Garcia made and not credit them. It's also unwise to think that the only person holding all the cards as the fight progresses is Khan, and that short of Khan making a 'mistake' Khan dominates 12 rounds. There is simply no evidence for it.

These are wishful assumptions IMO. The more we see Khan the more its obvious that this basic assumption Khan outboxes his opponent the whole fight unless he deviates from the so called 'gameplan' is silly. People can adjust to speed, people can exploit weaknesses, its not all about the chin either. There are so many mistakes people exploit that are nothing to do with whether Khan sticks to the jab and uses his footwork.

Basically its possible Khan outboxes him all night, but be careful not to be too one sided and see what Garcia did and could do too.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:48 PM   #49
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Agreed, TFFP.

He pretty much hit Molina with the kitchen sink and couldn't hurt him either. I actually believe Garcia could continuously throw without worrying all too much about what's coming his way. He may get 3 punches in his face, but he won't get hurt and he'll probably get one in on Amir which is all he may need.

Not only that, but Garcia has never been down amateur or pro! Ate Kendall Holt's punches like they were peanuts. Credit to Molina too, he's never been down but he was still a lightweight who Amir should have hurt more.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:50 PM   #50
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Earl-hickey View Post
it is easy, if he uses his brain.

Garcia is no killer.
He can't change what he's always done. In his mind, getting combinations off is his way of winning, it's his adrenaline rush. He'll probably never learn how to place his shots in a calm manner, but I do see him becoming better with age because he'll only slow down, naturally.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:50 PM   #51
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
So do you think Garcia will beat Khan in the rematch..?
I personally think he will. Khan was winning the first fight but Garcia knocked him out by timing his counter shot perfectly. Garcia was figuring him out. Deny it all you want, Khan is a one dimensional fighter. A one-trick pony. That one-trick of his (his blistering speed) is really good, but when other fighters manage to work him out he struggles and becomes repetitive. I think Garcia stops in again in a rematch. Khan's only chance would be to hit and run and win a decision. I don't think he would do that though, he's too gung-ho.
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Old 12-30-2012, 05:59 PM   #52
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Agreed, TFFP.

He pretty much hit Molina with the kitchen sink and couldn't hurt him either. I actually believe Garcia could continuously throw without worrying all too much about what's coming his way. He may get 3 punches in his face, but he won't get hurt and he'll probably get one in on Amir which is all he may need.

Not only that, but Garcia has never been down amateur or pro! Ate Kendall Holt's punches like they were peanuts. Credit to Molina too, he's never been down but he was still a lightweight who Amir should have hurt more.
Stop being a sell-out man.

Stop bowing down, and saying what you think the critics want to hear.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:00 PM   #53
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

PK, I can see both sides of the coin. Khan could outbox him the whole night, I don't think its unfair to claim that, I just think there are errors in the way this is being analyzed to be so presumptuous as to think Khan wins as long as he sticks to 'Plan A' and if he gets hurt to hold, move about the ring and survive. I'm looking at what Garcia brings too.

Garcia ain't this thoughtless mug that swung a left-hook and won a lottery, IMO. It was a bit more subtle than that.

I can see how Khan outboxes him consistently as people suggest, but I also think Garcia is intelligent enough in his approach to pick his spots and I do think there are always shaky moments for Khan to ride out. It's also a big psychological hurdle for Khan. Khan's going to be very cautious about overextending in this fight. If you're too cautious, too precise and contrived, thats dangerous too, there has to be a natural element. That could give impetus to Garcia and Khan could lose in a different manner. But even so, Garcia's timing impresses me, his chin and power are a big factor, I see that he's smart enough to make adjustments and the psychological edge, these are all good reasons to see another victory

Just to state again, picking Khan is perfectly reasonable and it wouldn't exactly be a shock if he outboxed DG. Just some of the logic that arrived at this conclusion that I question, and certainly logic that would be extremely dangerous if it was the mindset of Khan going into the fight! It ain't just about a solitary mistake, and I think Khan knows that with the way he's talking and the changes he's made to move to Hunter.
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:01 PM   #54
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Lazarus View Post
He can't change what he's always done. In his mind, getting combinations off is his way of winning, it's his adrenaline rush. He'll probably never learn how to place his shots in a calm manner, but I do see him becoming better with age because he'll only slow down, naturally.
So what do you think Khan should do?

Do you think Garcia KO's him again?

because if that happens, it's going to be a LONG way back for Khan
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #55
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
Stop being a sell-out man.

Stop bowing down, and saying what you think the critics want to hear.
It's called being realistic. I'd love to see Khan smash him, but he's just not good enough.

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Originally Posted by Earl-hickey View Post
So what do you think Khan should do?

Do you think Garcia KO's him again?

because if that happens, it's going to be a LONG way back for Khan
Avoid him, fight someone else. Yep, I do!
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:03 PM   #56
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

I feel dirty suggesting this, but there is an easy way out of this for Khan

Let Matthyse take care of the Garcia problem.

Khan can just sit back and say he needs another 1-2 tune ups, Matthyse is on the verge of calling for purse bids with Garcia.

Let him bash Garcia up, and then I think the pair of them jump to 147

like i say, dirty, but maybe sensible
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Old 12-30-2012, 06:22 PM   #57
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Khans got the sort of speed that kills and is horrible to adjust to. Sadly he has almost no sense of timing or range and it hurts his potential.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:03 PM   #58
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by achillesthegreat View Post
Khans got the sort of speed that kills and is horrible to adjust to. Sadly he has almost no sense of timing or range and it hurts his potential.
Power too.

if you have a half decent chin you can take his shots to get your own off, it's a real hindrance although it might have something to do with accuracy as he doesn't land clean a lot.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:22 PM   #59
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
Danny Garcia said he started to slip Amir Khan's punches..?

He was getting beat throughout the whole fight until he knocked Amir Khan down.

Amir Khan will TKO him in the rematch.
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Originally Posted by Primadonna Kool View Post
Danny Garcia meant to land the punch but..? He was being beat the entire fight, and landing a big shot! was pretty much always his only chance of turning the tables.
Stop talking rubbish, Khan won the 1st 2 rounds, thats it. Then ended up on his arse 3 times in the next 2 rounds.

Yes Garcia was starting to slip and time Khans punches. Do you think that left hook hook was just thrown out of the blue, that was not a lucky punch he had threw the same punch a good few times previously.

I could see your point of view if this was after a 11 round Khan shutout and Garcia landed a hail mary out of nowhere after doing nothing all fight. But lets face it thats not what happend AT ALL.
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Old 12-30-2012, 07:34 PM   #60
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

I find it amazing people can judge if a fighter gets pulled out or not after 8 or 9 rounds of taking a peppering, Garcia was cut and getting marked up in 2 rounds, if the left did not land in the 3rd and Khan continued to win the rounds how bad would of been Garcia's face by the 9th 10th?, I mean from the outset Garcia ONLY had a punchers chance this guy was not going to outbox Khan, if Khan shortened to combos and stayed less in the pocket Garcia would of got outboxed all night and probs got stopped late when his face would of been cut up and in a bad way.

This kid not a real pressure fighter plus he moves slow around the ring, has to plant his feet to get his power hooks off, Khan needs to keep circling away from his left and this would be a straight forward win in the rematch.

People acting like the first left hook Garcia lands Khan be doing the dance don't be silly Garcia landed a few left hooks before he landed the well timed and placed on Khan's neck area which is a fact no one likes to discuss this big left landed on his neck not his chin , maybe this had an extra effect on Khan, it is sensitive area for sure.
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