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Old 12-30-2012, 08:55 PM   #76
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGoode View Post
Khan was winning the first two rounds but he was also getting clipped from the first and when you have a vulnerable chin like Khan's that is always going to be dangerous.

I remember thinking from the first round that Khan was probably winning the rounds but that he would hit the canvas at some point, in a rematch, even if he boxes and moves behind the jab, at some stage Garcia will get more desperate and start to unload on him.

He knows he can hurt Khan so he'll be looking to land the power shots, Khan likes to get involved when he fights and trade so unless he can remain extremely disciplined and steer clear of any bombs for the full 12 rounds it is extremely plausible that Garcia stops him again. If I was Garcia fighting a rematch I would try and get right on Khan's chest like Peterson did and not let him fight at range and rough him up on the inside trying to land hooks and uppercuts.

We've seen Khan beaten before then come back and seem slightly improved and a bit tighter defensively only to fight like an absolute doughnut again when it matters. I don't see why this should be any different this time around, Virgil Hunter has got him too late to change him that much.
Danny Garcia is not The Juggernaut, and he is not impervious to physical attacks.

If he goes looking for Amir Khan in the rematch, he will be hammered with shots constantly.

Danny Garcia'S only hope is to once again, land a big bomb! Which he may well do! But i think Amir Khan will get on his bike and ride out the storm, instead of journeying into the eye of the storm and deciding to trade.

I will make this point again!

Amir Khan was in better shape when the fight was stopped, compared to the first knock down! and he was fighting back, and hitting Garcia.

If that famous yank referee was in their, the fight would not of been stopped!

The refferee who worked during Jermaine Taylor vs Kelly Pavlik I.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:02 PM   #77
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Darni187 View Post
How many times can a guy **** up?

Khan knows he can't make them mistakes again, if he has any sense he will not fight Garcia the same way, I think that's with or without Hunter factor too.
You just dont get it do you?
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:07 PM   #78
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

I've got to say it though

If Khan DOES beat Garcia in a rematch, half this forum needs to retire from posting because their credibility will be gone.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:27 PM   #79
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by Earl-hickey View Post
I've got to say it though

If Khan DOES beat Garcia in a rematch, half this forum needs to retire from posting because their credibility will be gone.


You know Darni will be bumping this thread if Khan wins a rematch. And that's no good for anyone!
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:30 PM   #80
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Ok make it bit more clearer, based on the results of the first two rounds with the pattern it was setting early on in this fight and I am of course basing my opinion on the pattern which in those two rounds.

Clearly Khan won the first 2 rounds using fast 1 , 2 and even 3 or 4, now based on Garcia style he was never going to out land Khan with his output he likes to pick his shots, the only way he was going to win rounds if he hurts Khan and draws him in slows his work rate to win rounds over him.

He would have to hurt Khan bad to win rounds over him due to his style and footwork, now if Khan is not that bad he can still be in his senses and use his legs to get away like he don't vs Maidana and Peterson in some part, but Garcia is not a pressure fighter therefore his slow feet around the ring won't really help him.

He likes guys coming on to him I think if he has to chase he won't be that effective, he likes to throw with you and time you.

So cut it short Garcia only beats Khan if he KO him badly, if he hurts Khan in a exchange Khan can go on the backfoot and still outbox him.

So based on this its either Garcia stops Khan or Khan keeps winning the rounds.

First 2 rounds it was looking too easy for Khan to land, Garcia land landing some body shots but nothing to claim he won the first 2.
I agree with your first few points. It's not easy to win rounds of Khan if you're Garcia.

However, you're placing too much emphasis on 2 rounds, IMO. And not enough on a number of eventualities that could play out. You've read into one line of thinking based on 2 rounds, but haven't extended the same analysis into the rounds which tell a different story. 2 fighters, 2 stories to tell.

The thing with handspeed is obviously it declines, for any fighter, as the fight progresses. Another thing that seems perfectly intuitive is that Fighter A with very fast hands suffers a sharper relative decline in handspeed as the fight progresses, compared to Fighter B who has 'ordinary' or good handspeed.

I think with exceptional handspeed, and I mean exceptional as Khan's is, its exceptionally potent early on. I think the reasons are you can throw from places others can't and get away without worrying so much about a counterpunch as you have greater ability to occupy an opponents thoughts with your punching. I think this is where some of the recklessness comes from, but thats a side issue.

The issue as I see it is its not sufficient to rely on 2 rounds where there is a big handspeed differential. It doesn't paint a full picture. There are areas that come into play where Garcia can test Khan even during these moments through rounds 1-4 as we saw. It's not that difficult to imagine further issues that warrant debate in the mid to late rounds. It doesn't just matter whether Garcia lands a counter again early on, or whether Khan boxes him to pieces. It matters whether Garcia can consistently land once he's adjusted. It matters how Khan deals with a gameplan that incorporates a lot of movement that people expect of him. How does he tire? How does Garcia tire given he's economical? Does Garcia get closer and closer as the fight progresses and genuinely pressure him since we saw in the Peterson and Maidana fights Khan struggles to maintain a fast start? He may not only have the possibility of punching with Khan. You're talking like theres one way to skin a cat.

e.g. Are any of these unreasonable?

A) Garcia begins to time Khan in the mid rounds, again. Khan continues to box well but is consistently timed, eventually hurt and put down in the 9th.
B) Khan starts well, Garcia isn't getting much joy rounds 1-6. Khan begins to tire, Garcia's physical strength, punch resistance are factors and Khan fades. Khan gets put over at some point closing the scores. Garcia pressures late on, landing the harder, more impressive punches and its a close decision. Not too different from Maidana in some ways.
C) Garcia doesn't believe Khan can hurt him and takes an aggressive approach. I don't think this is that likely, I don't think Garcia's that guy. But psychological factors could combine and make an unexpected fight.

All this could be spun round for Khan and this is the jist of my point, its not just about 'the punch in round 3', or conceived wisdom 'Khan outboxes him if he doesn't get hit'.
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Old 12-30-2012, 09:51 PM   #81
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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I agree with your first few points. It's not easy to win rounds of Khan if you're Garcia.

However, you're placing too much emphasis on 2 rounds, IMO. And not enough on a number of eventualities that could play out. You've read into one line of thinking based on 2 rounds, but haven't extended the same analysis into the rounds which tell a different story. 2 fighters, 2 stories to tell.

The thing with handspeed is obviously it declines, for any fighter, as the fight progresses. Another thing that seems perfectly intuitive is that Fighter A with very fast hands suffers a sharper relative decline in handspeed as the fight progresses, compared to Fighter B who has 'ordinary' or good handspeed.

I think with exceptional handspeed, and I mean exceptional as Khan's is, its exceptionally potent early on. I think the reasons are you can throw from places others can't and get away without worrying so much about a counterpunch as you have greater ability to occupy an opponents thoughts with your punching. I think this is where some of the recklessness comes from, but thats a side issue.

The issue as I see it is its not sufficient to rely on 2 rounds where there is a big handspeed differential. It doesn't paint a full picture. There are areas that come into play where Garcia can test Khan even during these moments through rounds 1-4 as we saw. It's not that difficult to imagine further issues that warrant debate in the mid to late rounds. You're talking like theres one way to skin a cat.
I agree in a context of a fight that's true other factors and scenarios come into play, of course I was basing it on the fact looking at Garcia's face in 2 rounds and if the fight went onto 9th 10th who is to say his Dad don't pull him out, because if Khan is still there that must mean he still landing so if his face is cut up in 2 rounds who knows what it be like in 10rds Garcia is quite hittable too.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:07 PM   #82
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Khan is just too easy to hit and a fighter with decent enough power and accuracy can always stand a hefty chance of a KO win against him.

It's easy to say that he can just "get on his bike" to victory but at some point in order to win the fight he has to throw punches.

When he throws punches he usually does two things:

1. Throws too many punches in a combination and allows his opponent to counter

2. Doesn't get out quick enough or get his gloves up quick enough and gets countered, he's often caught admiring his work.

I just don't think any amount of training or strategy is going to stop him making those basic mistakes in the ring, he gets over excited and gets caught, his legs start to get shaky and then it's good night.

Sometimes he DOES manage to stay on his bike and earn good wins like his fights with Kotelnik and Maidana when he was hanging on, perhaps he'll do that against Garcia in a rematch but I'd never bet on it because you just never know with Khan. He could win the first ten rounds cleanly and still get KO'd in the last two quite conceivably.
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Old 12-30-2012, 10:47 PM   #83
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by JonnyBGoode View Post
Khan is just too easy to hit and a fighter with decent enough power and accuracy can always stand a hefty chance of a KO win against him.

It's easy to say that he can just "get on his bike" to victory but at some point in order to win the fight he has to throw punches.

When he throws punches he usually does two things:

1. Throws too many punches in a combination and allows his opponent to counter

2. Doesn't get out quick enough or get his gloves up quick enough and gets countered, he's often caught admiring his work.

I just don't think any amount of training or strategy is going to stop him making those basic mistakes in the ring, he gets over excited and gets caught, his legs start to get shaky and then it's good night.

Sometimes he DOES manage to stay on his bike and earn good wins like his fights with Kotelnik and Maidana when he was hanging on, perhaps he'll do that against Garcia in a rematch but I'd never bet on it because you just never know with Khan. He could win the first ten rounds cleanly and still get KO'd in the last two quite conceivably.
How come Zab Judah did'nt knock out Amir Khan..?

He's faster than Danny Garcia and has decent power.
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Old 12-30-2012, 11:34 PM   #84
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Zab Judah just didn't want to know in that fight and never got out of the blocks, but that's Judah for you he doesn't like punishment. He faked a low blow and then went down for the count because he didn't want to fight, kind of a Dirrell moment. Khan fought well and demoralised him but that doesn't work against everyone.

Khan nearly had Maidana out early but he got up and almost beat him. Against a durable opponent like Matthyse or from what little I have seen of Garcia he will probably have to go the distance and that means more chance of being caught. Especially when Khan tires and his hands keep coming down and he gets a bit sloppy as we've seen him do leaving himself open especially close up.

Khan's problem is his style is still like the style that brought him amateur success. High volume of peppering shots to score points, the big gloves and head guard providing him enough protection to outpoint his opponent in the amateurs made this easier for him.

His main assets are hand speed and quick feet and reflexes but his worst is his chin. If he had developed a style in the pros that employed similar tactics used by the likes of Wlad or Mayweather or Hopkins where he used his hand speed and reflexes to counter punch whilst making himself difficult to be hit thus protecting your chin but hitting your opponent with explosive combinations when they make a mistake he could well be unbeaten.

It's just all wrong for him at the moment because he doesn't have the one punch power to really knock out opponents so to trade with them recklessly and risk getting caught when you have a slightly suspect punch resistance is just dumb. It's been said before but he just doesn't have enough ring IQ or guile, he can't out think his opponents he just engages. It's a mental battle not just physical and the good fighters like Mayweather and Ward and Calzaghe always found a way to win against whoever they faced whereas Khan often looks totally lost, he just doesn't seem able to adapt quick enough or change his game plan effectively enough in fights when he needs to box at range or whatever.

There is obviously the possibility that Hunter will have him well drilled and perhaps he has changed and tightened up and corrected some mistakes and will be a more complete fighter in future? I just think it's unlikely and he's got a good chance of suffering another KO loss next time he steps up in class either against Garcia or Matthyse, who although a bit crude has a big dig and will keep coming forward. I'm not a Khan hater I will support him when he fights that's just how I see it.
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Old 12-31-2012, 08:06 PM   #85
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Khan fought a good fight against Judah and Judah lost the fight before he entered ring. Sweet Pea tried to impose his style on Judah and he was a sitting duck that night.

Pernell demanded Judah to get low but he couldn't deal with speed of Khan. Khan kept to the plan. Judah by staying low had trouble seizing oppurtunities to counter, his feet were planted and he looked awkward trying his Sweet Pea impersanation.

Also Judah is a flattrack bully in boxing terms, the moment he's not got control of a fight is moment he crumbles mentally. A fantastic talent but mentally he struggles when asked questions and Khan's lateral movement and straight punching was on point and he just slowly broke Judah's will that night.

Garcia talked of timing in a interview before fight, Garcia punches with fighters. Although he lost those opening two rounds he didn't get flustered by Khan's speed nor did he allow Khan to gain the massive early success that Khan often gets in those opening 9 minutes. Garcia actually boxed pretty well with Khan IMHO in those early minutes..

Garcia suffered a cut, his dad worried but Danny knew those punches were clipping Khan. As he said he started seeing Khan slow a little, when Khan slowed he started to get a little closer. 3rd round he stuck a few into body before that KD..

Garcia's defence isn't greatest but he's subtle with his moves, he moves head a little to change level and angle. He parries and blocks decently and leans back from shots at times. He's there to be hit but he's calm in there, He pivoted at times to his left and away from Khan's jab. Dangerous move but he stepped back as he did it to make Khan miss with right hand. Because Swift does these moves he saves himself from more damage then other fighters like Maidana who lacked the cultured ring craft when fighting centre ring with Khan..

Khan held his feet a tad more then often, but Danny kept him honest with a move of head there and feint with a shot here and a little step back there and Danny isn't as a bad a plodder as people think. He plods in yes but watch speed of how he gets out of range. Not textbook but he's obviously learned that type of foot speed on them Philly streets .

Garcia had success because he boxed with Khan in a controlled manner and kept calm and knew those openings would be there as long as he got in range. He fought a better fight then Peterson IMHO.

I'd take Danny to beat Khan again unless Hunter can develop Khan's all round game..
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Old 01-01-2013, 01:43 AM   #86
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

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Originally Posted by SkillspayBills View Post
Khan fought a good fight against Judah and Judah lost the fight before he entered ring. Sweet Pea tried to impose his style on Judah and he was a sitting duck that night.

Pernell demanded Judah to get low but he couldn't deal with speed of Khan. Khan kept to the plan. Judah by staying low had trouble seizing oppurtunities to counter, his feet were planted and he looked awkward trying his Sweet Pea impersanation.

Also Judah is a flattrack bully in boxing terms, the moment he's not got control of a fight is moment he crumbles mentally. A fantastic talent but mentally he struggles when asked questions and Khan's lateral movement and straight punching was on point and he just slowly broke Judah's will that night.

Garcia talked of timing in a interview before fight, Garcia punches with fighters. Although he lost those opening two rounds he didn't get flustered by Khan's speed nor did he allow Khan to gain the massive early success that Khan often gets in those opening 9 minutes. Garcia actually boxed pretty well with Khan IMHO in those early minutes..

Garcia suffered a cut, his dad worried but Danny knew those punches were clipping Khan. As he said he started seeing Khan slow a little, when Khan slowed he started to get a little closer. 3rd round he stuck a few into body before that KD..

Garcia's defence isn't greatest but he's subtle with his moves, he moves head a little to change level and angle. He parries and blocks decently and leans back from shots at times. He's there to be hit but he's calm in there, He pivoted at times to his left and away from Khan's jab. Dangerous move but he stepped back as he did it to make Khan miss with right hand. Because Swift does these moves he saves himself from more damage then other fighters like Maidana who lacked the cultured ring craft when fighting centre ring with Khan..

Khan held his feet a tad more then often, but Danny kept him honest with a move of head there and feint with a shot here and a little step back there and Danny isn't as a bad a plodder as people think. He plods in yes but watch speed of how he gets out of range. Not textbook but he's obviously learned that type of foot speed on them Philly streets .

Garcia had success because he boxed with Khan in a controlled manner and kept calm and knew those openings would be there as long as he got in range. He fought a better fight then Peterson IMHO.

I'd take Danny to beat Khan again unless Hunter can develop Khan's all round game..
Great post, exactly what i think but am too lazy/unable too but into words.

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Old 01-01-2013, 11:29 AM   #87
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

Sometimes if i wonder if that Kool lad even watches boxing or just makes shit up and babbles it on forums. ****ing clueless.
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Old 01-01-2013, 11:55 AM   #88
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

idiocy of khan fans amazes the shit out of me, they base everything on assumption not hard concrete facts, ''oh our boy won the first 2 rounds of the fight before he went down'' it doesn't mean shit it was too early in the fight to matter.
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Old 01-01-2013, 12:10 PM   #89
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Default Re: Danny Garcia on Amir Khan's Speed

will he countinue to bang his gloves together telling the fighter to come at him like he thinks he is manny or will he be trying to be more like ward
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