Sanchez vs Saldivar

PhillyPhan69 · 12-31-2012, 05:28 AM

Another match-up of two of my favorites....Who do you rate as the greater feather and why...how much is seperating them in your opinion????

Who would win a hypothetical fight and how why????

Zopilote · 12-31-2012, 05:41 AM

I would say Saldivar is the overall greater Feather...Ruled a very stacked divison with an iron fist, pretty much cleared it, retired and came back a few years later to defeat the 2 best Feather at that time to become champ again. Had excellent fighters in his resume.

As for a match up, the styles match up here favor them both but IMO Sanchez was the more skilled fighter and i think he would come out with a close UD. Both had excellent stamina, but Sanchez' superior speed, movement, and accuracy wins him this IMO.

PhillyPhan69 · 12-31-2012, 04:59 PM

Although Saldivar does not get the publicity or widespread popularity that Sanchez does I would say he is the greater of the 2 as well. Perhaps if Sanchez's life had not been cut short he may have had the opportunity to prove otherwise. To me Saldivar dominated a better era (perhaps that would make a good debate...which FW era was better?), and did so for twice as long, and then retired and came back 2 years later to reclaim the top spot...

I also like Saldivar to beat Sanchez straight up...

TheSouthpaw · 12-31-2012, 07:07 PM

Great thread Philly. Im leaning towards Sanchez but I may have to do some Homework on this one, its too close to call.

TheSouthpaw · 12-31-2012, 07:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Although Saldivar does not get the publicity or widespread popularity that Sanchez does I would say he is the greater of the 2 as well. Perhaps if Sanchez's life had not been cut short he may have had the opportunity to prove otherwise. To me Saldivar dominated a better era (perhaps that would make a good debate...which FW era was better?), and did so for twice as long, and then retired and came back 2 years later to reclaim the top spot...

I also like Saldivar to beat Sanchez straight up...

Saldivar was one tough SOB though thats for sure..

PhillyPhan69 · 12-31-2012, 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

Saldivar was one tough SOB though thats for sure..

What do you think his best performances were???

LittleRed · 12-31-2012, 08:06 PM

Like Sanchez he could look ordinary against lesser competition. He could be dropped too, by less than dynamite punchers. But he had unlimited stamina and was hell to fight over 15. Still need to watch the last Winstone fight. Saw his first loss; bizarre fight. My Spanish is virtually non exsistent but I presume the headbutt resulted in the dq.

PhillyPhan69 · 01-01-2013, 04:36 PM

Another discussion thought Saldivar went 8-0 in title fights retired for 2 years and won it again before losing 2 final title fights (9-2)...While Sanchez went 10-0 in title fights....How would they fare against each others competition....

Sanchez vs Saldivar opponents
Laguna
Sugar Ramos
Rojas
Winstone I
Robertson
Seki I
Seki II
Winstone II
Winstone III
Legra
Famechon

Can any spring an upset??? who gives him a tough fight along the way?

Saldivar vs Sanchez oppositiion
D. Lopez I
Castillo
Lopez II
Ford
Laporte
Castanon
N. Perez
W. Gomez
Cowdell
Garcia
Nelson

Can any beat him...who gives him a tough fight???

Whose opposition was better...if we paired their respective opponents against each other how would it play out?????

Lopez I vs Ismael Laguna
R. castillio vs Sugar Ramos
Lopez II vs R. Rojas
P. Ford vs Winstone I
J. Laporte vs F. Robertson
R. Castanon vs M. seki I
N. Perez vs Seki II
W. Gomez vs Winstone II
P. Cowdell vs Winstone III
Garcia vs Legra
Nelson vs Famechon

PhillyPhan69 · 01-01-2013, 04:44 PM

Sanchez vs Saldivar opponents
Laguna
Rojas
Winstone I
Robertson
Seki I
Seki II
Winstone II
Winstone III
Legra
Famechon

I would excpect Sanchez to be the favorite and/or win all of these...

I do wonder if Laguna might be able to spring an upset over The Sanchez that fought in Lopez I??? largely because it was over 10 rounds....Laguna may be able to take a close decision (if this was 15 like Lopez I as opposed to the 10 rounder that Daldivar/Laguna fought then I would take Sanchez easily)...as it is I still think Sanchez is the favorite...but laguna would keep it close and possibly spring the upset....

I also think Winstone is a very live dog here...Both Cowdell & Ford were able to take sanchez the distance and lose very close SD's to him...Winstone could likewise cause him some similar trouble IMHO, although I would make him a certain underdog...I also don't think he would pull it off....but I do think he would be competitive...

Famechon is the other interesting one....I might pick the Famechon that beat Harada I & II over the Sanchez that beat a green Azumah....I am not sure whether Famechon aged over the 5 months after Harada II or if Saldivar was so good it just seemed like it???? Saqnchez at his best (or the Nelson version) should still be considered the favorite...But I think Famechon might be the best chance of any of Saldivars opponents to spring an upset....

PhillyPhan69 · 01-01-2013, 04:50 PM

Saldivar vs Sanchez oppositiion
D. Lopez I
Castillo
Lopez II
Ford
Laporte
Castanon
W. Gomez
Cowdell
Garcia
Nelson

Once again I think Saldivar would/should win all of these...
I really Like Little Red (not the guy who posts on ESB....he is horrible!!!!)

but I don't like him to beat Saldivar....

I think similar to the reverse opinion in the Sanchez vs saldivar opponents that both Cowdell and Ford could push Saldivar to very close type of decisions and spring upsets if he is anything less than his best...much in the vein of Winstone I & II.

The young green Nelson might be able to beat the slightly past prime Saldivar who beat Famechon...actually I would pick nelson to beat him at this stage....But then again I am an even bigger Nelson fan than I am of Saldivar....along w/ Sanchez they are perhaps my 3 favorite FW's ever.

PhillyPhan69 · 01-01-2013, 05:00 PM

Whose opposition was better...if we paired their respective opponents against each other how would it play out?????

Lopez I vs Ismael Laguna- Super tough one for me...Laguna lost a 10 round decision to saldivar, while Lopez was stopped in 13 by Sanchez. In a 10 round fight I would pick Laguna to stay away from Lopez's power and win a decision....While over 15 I lean towards a Lopez decision and possibly a stoppage if he can floor Laguna like Elorde did??? Difficult to pick a stoppage since Laguna was never stopped, but Lopez is not just anyone either...I will call this one a draw!

R. castillio vs Sugar Ramos-This should be a tough fight but I like Ramos to take a close decision and would not rule out a late stoppage either.

Lopez II vs R. Rojas- Rojas keeps it close for 6 rounds or so, before lopez takes over and stops him around 8-10 or so.

P. Ford vs Winstone I- Not only do I think Winstone was substantially more seasoned than Ford at this stage, I also think he was a superior boxer...I like Winstone in a comfortable 10-5/9-6 type of decision.

J. Laporte vs F. Robertson- I like Laporte to take a decision in this fight...I would not rule out a stoppage not so much because I think Laporte is that much better than Robertson (although I do), as much as it because Robertson was at the tail end of his career and susceptible to it by this point.

R. Castanon vs M. seki I- I like Seki to take a solid decision in this one.

N. Perez vs Seki II- I like seki again by decision over 10 rounds (perhaps by stoppage over 15)

W. Gomez vs Winstone II- I have never been sold on Gomez @ FW, but think that Winstone lacks the power to beat him like Sanchez/Nelson (and even Lockridge IMHO)....gomez would be very dangerous and I would not pick this with major confidence....but I like Winstone by a close decision.

P. Cowdell vs Winstone III- This to me would be super close...I think Winstone was superior to Cowdell, but also at the tail end of his career....He could be ripe for an upset, but I will still pick Winstone Hesitantly.

Garcia vs Legra- I like Legra to win a close decision 9-6 or so

Nelson vs Famechon - This would be a great fight IMHO....I am extremely biased towards azumah so I may be blinded....I like Nelson (even this green version) to beat the seasoned end of the road famechon....Famechon would be a very capable opponent and might even be the favorite based upon where they were at in their careers....but I stick w/ my pick!

7-3-1 in favor of Saldivars opposition.

Rex Tickard · 01-01-2013, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Saldivar vs Sanchez oppositiion
D. Lopez I
Castillo
Lopez II
Ford
Laporte
Castanon
W. Gomez
Cowdell
Garcia
Nelson

Once again I think Saldivar would/should win all of these...

I'm not so sure about that. I think he would have his hands full with Lopez, Gomez, and even the young Nelson. Saldivar liked to fight at a measured pace and pick his spots, and he was very rarely forced to step out of that. I think Ramos is the only fighter I've seen put some real heat on him in his prime - though Saldivar did come through very impressively with the win. However, I believe Sanchez ultimately proved himself to be more comfortable with a fast pace than Saldivar.

Lopez was somewhat comparable to Ramos IMO - a strong, hard-hitting FW with leaky defense - so it's very feasible that Saldivar could eventually break him down with left-handed sharpshooting. However, I'm not so confident as to how Saldivar would handle Gomez and Nelson, who I believe would bring more speed, power, and intensity to their attack than what Saldivar typically faced.

As far as Sanchez vs. Saldivar goes, I believe Sanchez was the better all-around fighter, and I would favor his skill and workrate to eventually open up Saldivar's southpaw defense and finish strong to win a decision.

Rex Tickard · 01-01-2013, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Whose opposition was better...if we paired their respective opponents against each other how would it play out?????

I would much prefer to see their opponents matched based on quality or status rather than their chronology.

For example, I believe Lopez vs. Ramos is a fairly even matchup of two gutsy, slam-bang titleholders (and future HOFers).

I think Nelson vs. Laguna is a more ideal matchup - two young-ish prospects that went on to be champions and HOFers.

PhillyPhan69 · 01-02-2013, 01:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Tickard

I'm not so sure about that. I think he would have his hands full with Lopez, Gomez, and even the young Nelson. Saldivar liked to fight at a measured pace and pick his spots, and he was very rarely forced to step out of that. I think Ramos is the only fighter I've seen put some real heat on him in his prime - though Saldivar did come through very impressively with the win. However, I believe Sanchez ultimately proved himself to be more comfortable with a fast pace than Saldivar.

Lopez was somewhat comparable to Ramos IMO - a strong, hard-hitting FW with leaky defense - so it's very feasible that Saldivar could eventually break him down with left-handed sharpshooting. However, I'm not so confident as to how Saldivar would handle Gomez and Nelson, who I believe would bring more speed, power, and intensity to their attack than what Saldivar typically faced.

As far as Sanchez vs. Saldivar goes, I believe Sanchez was the better all-around fighter, and I would favor his skill and workrate to eventually open up Saldivar's southpaw defense and finish strong to win a decision.

I think I said much of that???

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhillyPhan69

Once again I think Saldivar would/should win all of these...
I really Like Little Red (not the guy who posts on ESB....he is horrible!!!!)

but I don't like him to beat Saldivar....

I think similar to the reverse opinion in the Sanchez vs saldivar opponents that both Cowdell and Ford could push Saldivar to very close type of decisions and spring upsets if he is anything less than his best...much in the vein of Winstone I & II.

The young green Nelson might be able to beat the slightly past prime Saldivar who beat Famechon...actually I would pick nelson to beat him at this stage....But then again I am an even bigger Nelson fan than I am of Saldivar....along w/ Sanchez they are perhaps my 3 favorite FW's ever.

The only disagreement I have is with Gomez....He was not big, strong and/or good enough to hang w/ Sanchez or Nelson and IMHO Lockridge was of the the horrendous robberies of that day....I don't think Gomez would be able to deal w/ Saldivars power and he would likely get stopped after being competitive in the first half...Saldivar should stop him prior to double digets being hit in rounds.

PhillyPhan69 · 01-02-2013, 01:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rex Tickard

I would much prefer to see their opponents matched based on quality or status rather than their chronology.

For example, I believe Lopez vs. Ramos is a fairly even matchup of two gutsy, slam-bang titleholders (and future HOFers).

I think Nelson vs. Laguna is a more ideal matchup - two young-ish prospects that went on to be champions and HOFers.

This would be an OK way for me to look at the quality of their oppostiion as well in a comparrison...I went chronologically just to determine how they would have fared at similar points in ther careers...Feel free to revise the order if it suits you....

Lopez I vs Sugar Ramos- I like Little Red (again not the antagonistic, agenda based Pittsburghaholic ESB poster) and think he would stop Ramos late.

Lopez II vs Famechon- I like Famechon to take a close decision

Nelson vs Laguna- (I hate this, probably my two favorite non-Philly Phighters ever)...I would take Nelson by decision over 12 and stoppage over 15.

Gomez vs Winstone I- Again I like Winstone to outpoint the tough and game gomez.

Laporte vs Rojas- Laporte by a very close decision

Cowdell vs Winstone II- I like Winstone to be just a little to slick and savy and take a close but clear decision...

Ford vs Legra- I like the older and wiley vet to beat the up and comer ford

Castillo vs seki I- I like both guys but envision Castillo taking a close decision

Castanon vs Seki II- This time Seki is up for the challange and a takes the decision

Garcia vs Winstone III- I like even this fadeing version of Winstone to beat Garcia by a clear decision

Perez vs Robertson- Robertson was certainly on the downsloap of his career, but his skill level should enable to win this decison.

Saldivars opposition by 7-4....I still think his opposition was a step ahead no matter how we slice it.

View Poll Results: Sanchez vs Saldivar
Sanchez is greater and beats Saldivar	5	41.67%
Sanchez is greater but saldivar would win	0	0%
Saldivar is greater and beats Sanchez	4	33.33%
Saldivar is greater but Sanchez would win	2	16.67%
Too close to call	1	8.33%
Voters: 12. You may not vote on this poll

12-31-2012, 05:28 AM	#1
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,712 vCash: 1000	Sanchez vs Saldivar Another match-up of two of my favorites....Who do you rate as the greater feather and why...how much is seperating them in your opinion???? Who would win a hypothetical fight and how why????
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12-31-2012, 05:41 AM	#2
Zopilote Dinamita East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Middle of Nowhere Posts: 10,181 vCash: 500	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar I would say Saldivar is the overall greater Feather...Ruled a very stacked divison with an iron fist, pretty much cleared it, retired and came back a few years later to defeat the 2 best Feather at that time to become champ again. Had excellent fighters in his resume. As for a match up, the styles match up here favor them both but IMO Sanchez was the more skilled fighter and i think he would come out with a close UD. Both had excellent stamina, but Sanchez' superior speed, movement, and accuracy wins him this IMO.
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12-31-2012, 04:59 PM	#3
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,712 vCash: 1000	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Although Saldivar does not get the publicity or widespread popularity that Sanchez does I would say he is the greater of the 2 as well. Perhaps if Sanchez's life had not been cut short he may have had the opportunity to prove otherwise. To me Saldivar dominated a better era (perhaps that would make a good debate...which FW era was better?), and did so for twice as long, and then retired and came back 2 years later to reclaim the top spot... I also like Saldivar to beat Sanchez straight up...
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12-31-2012, 07:07 PM	#4
TheSouthpaw Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,893 vCash: 500	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Great thread Philly. Im leaning towards Sanchez but I may have to do some Homework on this one, its too close to call.
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12-31-2012, 08:06 PM	#7
LittleRed Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Yoknapatawpha Posts: 2,616 vCash: 475	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Like Sanchez he could look ordinary against lesser competition. He could be dropped too, by less than dynamite punchers. But he had unlimited stamina and was hell to fight over 15. Still need to watch the last Winstone fight. Saw his first loss; bizarre fight. My Spanish is virtually non exsistent but I presume the headbutt resulted in the dq.
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01-01-2013, 04:36 PM	#8
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,712 vCash: 1000	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Another discussion thought Saldivar went 8-0 in title fights retired for 2 years and won it again before losing 2 final title fights (9-2)...While Sanchez went 10-0 in title fights....How would they fare against each others competition.... Sanchez vs Saldivar opponents Laguna Sugar Ramos Rojas Winstone I Robertson Seki I Seki II Winstone II Winstone III Legra Famechon Can any spring an upset??? who gives him a tough fight along the way? Saldivar vs Sanchez oppositiion D. Lopez I Castillo Lopez II Ford Laporte Castanon N. Perez W. Gomez Cowdell Garcia Nelson Can any beat him...who gives him a tough fight??? Whose opposition was better...if we paired their respective opponents against each other how would it play out????? Lopez I vs Ismael Laguna R. castillio vs Sugar Ramos Lopez II vs R. Rojas P. Ford vs Winstone I J. Laporte vs F. Robertson R. Castanon vs M. seki I N. Perez vs Seki II W. Gomez vs Winstone II P. Cowdell vs Winstone III Garcia vs Legra Nelson vs Famechon Last edited by PhillyPhan69; 01-01-2013 at 05:03 PM. Reason: I forgot Sugar Ramos???
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01-01-2013, 04:44 PM	#9
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,712 vCash: 1000	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Sanchez vs Saldivar opponents Laguna Rojas Winstone I Robertson Seki I Seki II Winstone II Winstone III Legra Famechon I would excpect Sanchez to be the favorite and/or win all of these... I do wonder if Laguna might be able to spring an upset over The Sanchez that fought in Lopez I??? largely because it was over 10 rounds....Laguna may be able to take a close decision (if this was 15 like Lopez I as opposed to the 10 rounder that Daldivar/Laguna fought then I would take Sanchez easily)...as it is I still think Sanchez is the favorite...but laguna would keep it close and possibly spring the upset.... I also think Winstone is a very live dog here...Both Cowdell & Ford were able to take sanchez the distance and lose very close SD's to him...Winstone could likewise cause him some similar trouble IMHO, although I would make him a certain underdog...I also don't think he would pull it off....but I do think he would be competitive... Famechon is the other interesting one....I might pick the Famechon that beat Harada I & II over the Sanchez that beat a green Azumah....I am not sure whether Famechon aged over the 5 months after Harada II or if Saldivar was so good it just seemed like it???? Saqnchez at his best (or the Nelson version) should still be considered the favorite...But I think Famechon might be the best chance of any of Saldivars opponents to spring an upset....
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01-01-2013, 04:50 PM	#10
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,712 vCash: 1000	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Saldivar vs Sanchez oppositiion D. Lopez I Castillo Lopez II Ford Laporte Castanon W. Gomez Cowdell Garcia Nelson Once again I think Saldivar would/should win all of these... I really Like Little Red (not the guy who posts on ESB....he is horrible!!!!) but I don't like him to beat Saldivar.... I think similar to the reverse opinion in the Sanchez vs saldivar opponents that both Cowdell and Ford could push Saldivar to very close type of decisions and spring upsets if he is anything less than his best...much in the vein of Winstone I & II. The young green Nelson might be able to beat the slightly past prime Saldivar who beat Famechon...actually I would pick nelson to beat him at this stage....But then again I am an even bigger Nelson fan than I am of Saldivar....along w/ Sanchez they are perhaps my 3 favorite FW's ever.
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01-01-2013, 05:00 PM	#11
PhillyPhan69 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Salisbury, MD Posts: 3,712 vCash: 1000	Re: Sanchez vs Saldivar Whose opposition was better...if we paired their respective opponents against each other how would it play out????? Lopez I vs Ismael Laguna- Super tough one for me...Laguna lost a 10 round decision to saldivar, while Lopez was stopped in 13 by Sanchez. In a 10 round fight I would pick Laguna to stay away from Lopez's power and win a decision....While over 15 I lean towards a Lopez decision and possibly a stoppage if he can floor Laguna like Elorde did??? Difficult to pick a stoppage since Laguna was never stopped, but Lopez is not just anyone either...I will call this one a draw! R. castillio vs Sugar Ramos-This should be a tough fight but I like Ramos to take a close decision and would not rule out a late stoppage either. Lopez II vs R. Rojas- Rojas keeps it close for 6 rounds or so, before lopez takes over and stops him around 8-10 or so. P. Ford vs Winstone I- Not only do I think Winstone was substantially more seasoned than Ford at this stage, I also think he was a superior boxer...I like Winstone in a comfortable 10-5/9-6 type of decision. J. Laporte vs F. Robertson- I like Laporte to take a decision in this fight...I would not rule out a stoppage not so much because I think Laporte is that much better than Robertson (although I do), as much as it because Robertson was at the tail end of his career and susceptible to it by this point. R. Castanon vs M. seki I- I like Seki to take a solid decision in this one. N. Perez vs Seki II- I like seki again by decision over 10 rounds (perhaps by stoppage over 15) W. Gomez vs Winstone II- I have never been sold on Gomez @ FW, but think that Winstone lacks the power to beat him like Sanchez/Nelson (and even Lockridge IMHO)....gomez would be very dangerous and I would not pick this with major confidence....but I like Winstone by a close decision. P. Cowdell vs Winstone III- This to me would be super close...I think Winstone was superior to Cowdell, but also at the tail end of his career....He could be ripe for an upset, but I will still pick Winstone Hesitantly. Garcia vs Legra- I like Legra to win a close decision 9-6 or so Nelson vs Famechon - This would be a great fight IMHO....I am extremely biased towards azumah so I may be blinded....I like Nelson (even this green version) to beat the seasoned end of the road famechon....Famechon would be a very capable opponent and might even be the favorite based upon where they were at in their careers....but I stick w/ my pick! 7-3-1 in favor of Saldivars opposition. Last edited by PhillyPhan69; 01-01-2013 at 05:27 PM.
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