Who is the P4P hardest puncher of all time?

[|A|C|S|]

Wilder

[OneShay]

Originally Posted by Vysotsky

Im going to really challenge this popular Jackson notion.

Against who? and only within a 6lb range. Bob Foster scored equally scary KO's against better, notoriously iron chinned compitition like Dick Tiger yet his power did nothing at HW. I have a hard time calling anybody a P4P puncher if they never proved through multiple weight classes or against heavier men.

Weight aside Steele, Hostak, C.Garcia are without a doubt better MW P4P punchers having proved it against elite opposition (although Garcia and Steele did start at WW) and while Lausse and Fernandez's opposition is less than those 3 above i wouldn't be suprised if they hit harder than Jackson. Jackson encountered two men in his own era McCallum and McClellan who were able to actually walk through his shots, pressure him and eventually stop him. Lausse on the other hand backed up iron chinned Fullmer for 10 rounds even though he didn't stop him. Norris, Graham and Baek are probably the three best fighters Jackson stopped with Graham being the only clean KO (Norris did beat the count)

You know i have often answered this question by saying julian jackson in the past but i think you make a fair argument here. I think alot of people, myself included, may have been so impressed by the spectacular and brutal nature of a small number of his ko's to such a degree that they/we are too quick to throw his name out with little thought. I havent entirely revised my opinion but I definitely think more consideration will be required in future.

[fissionfusion]

First things first.

When people say hardest puncher that is not something indicative by record or who they fought. There are plenty of bums who have solid bricks for chins. I look solely for sheer brutality of punches when it comes to hardest puncher.

Shavers, Jackson, Bailey.

Yes, there were considerably better punchers out there. Better knockout artists as well. Joe Louis is up there. However, these three delivered more one punch WTFKO's and KD's than anyone I've ever seen mentioned in any of these threads. People would get KTFO and then wake up mid-fall from so much damn trauma they would have no idea what's going on. I've never seen fighter's heads snap back as hard, never seen so many newborn giraffe impressions, never seen so much brutality from blocked/predictable punches. I don't give a damn about what ESB gurus largely think, I let the actual testimonies speak for themselves.

Any answer outside of these 3 is simply not objectively looking at the question.

[mrvooh]

Originally Posted by locard

You people are idiots

Foreman didn't fight Shavers, how is he supposed to know how hard he punches? by being a parrot just like you people are?

And why the hell is the word of those old farts from the 70's considered the law even with the passing of decades?

It's not like they fought the likes of Tua, Tyson, Lewis, Wladimir, etc, all much bigger guys with much better one punch KO power than Shavers or any of the cruisers masquerading as heavies back in the day.

Shavers ain't shit

Shavers hit very hard, but I pick George Foreman because I don.t think any one could bounce Frazier around as Foreman did...Quarry could not beat Frazier, but he ko'd Shavers in rd 1 and he took Shavers punches quite well

[ChiefSecond]

Originally Posted by locard

Not this crap again.

and..fixed for accuracy

Originally Posted by locard

And Shavers is one overrated tomato can who never KO'd anyone of note.
Aside from jelly jawed Norton they all survived and beat his ass.

Hey Locard, here's something that you should take a look at.

Courtesy of fissionfusion.

Originally Posted by fissionfusion

First things first.

When people say hardest puncher that is not something indicative by record or who they fought. There are plenty of bums who have solid bricks for chins. I look solely for sheer brutality of punches when it comes to hardest puncher.

Shavers, Jackson, Bailey.

Yes, there were considerably better punchers out there. Better knockout artists as well. Joe Louis is up there. However, these three delivered more one punch WTFKO's and KD's than anyone I've ever seen mentioned in any of these threads. People would get KTFO and then wake up mid-fall from so much damn trauma they would have no idea what's going on. I've never seen fighter's heads snap back as hard, never seen so many newborn giraffe impressions, never seen so much brutality from blocked/predictable punches. I don't give a damn about what ESB gurus largely think, I let the actual testimonies speak for themselves.

Any answer outside of these 3 is simply not objectively looking at the question.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

[MMJoe]

Pipino Cuevas, Carlos Zarate.

[thanosone]

Shavers hit hard. That much is known. Boxers that were punched by him>the couple of posters here arguing that he did not.

[MMJoe]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

Those who fought Shavers such as Lyle (rated Shavers as hardest puncher), Ali (rated Shavers as hardest puncher), Norton (rated Shavers as hardest puncher), Tillis (rated Shavers as hardest puncher), Holmes (rated Shavers as hardest puncher), and Cobb (rated Shavers as hardest puncher) all disagree.

Who are we to tell that many people that they are wrong and others hit harder? A lot more goes into a knockout than sheer power.

Not to pick on Shavers, but everyone you mentioned above (except Ken Norton) beat Shavers.
I think there is a psychological thing about boxers that they speak highly of the fighters that they beat and it makes their victory more appealing and ego gratifying. Somehow in the weird pecking order it also makes their losses look more (at least in their own minds) like just a bad night or lucky punch by the other guy; "Hey look, my KO loss isn't really legit, I beat Earnie fucking Shavers."

One more example: Alfonzo Ratliff said that Craig Bodzianoski was the hardest puncher he ever fought. Ratliff beat Bodzianoski both times they fought and Ratliff rates him higher than Mike Tyson, Gary Mason, Pinklon Thomas and Tim Witherspoon, all of which KO'd Ratliff.

[TheHitman81]

Malignaggi

[MMJoe]

Originally Posted by thanosone

Shavers hit hard. That much is known. Boxers that were punched by him>the couple of posters here arguing that he did not.

Probably did, but check out this blog. As you go down the page the guy goes inot more and more detail why he thinks Earnie was not. Some interesting stats porvided.

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[Bill1234]

Originally Posted by MMJoe

Not to pick on Shavers, but everyone you mentioned above (except Ken Norton) beat Shavers.
I think there is a psychological thing about boxers that they speak highly of the fighters that they beat and it makes their victory more appealing and ego gratifying. Somehow in the weird pecking order it also makes their losses look more (at least in their own minds) like just a bad night or lucky punch by the other guy; "Hey look, my KO loss isn't really legit, I beat Earnie fucking Shavers."

One more example: Alfonzo Ratliff said that Craig Bodzianoski was the hardest puncher he ever fought. Ratliff beat Bodzianoski both times they fought and Ratliff rates him higher than Mike Tyson, Gary Mason, Pinklon Thomas and Tim Witherspoon, all of which KO'd Ratliff.

Ali beat both Foreman and Shavers, he has no reason to lie. Holmes beat every big puncher he faced minus Tyson, and he stated Tyson was the sharpest puncher, but Shavers was the hardest.

I see what you're saying, but there are just too many people saying the same thing about Shavers to go along with it.

[Hatesrats]

http://beststarphoto.com/images/julian-jackson-05.jpg

[MMJoe]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

Ali beat both Foreman and Shavers, he has no reason to lie. Holmes beat every big puncher he faced minus Tyson, and he stated Tyson was the sharpest puncher, but Shavers was the hardest.

I see what you're saying, but there are just too many people saying the same thing about Shavers to go along with it.

OK, no problem.

[fissionfusion]

Originally Posted by Bill1234

I see what you're saying, but there are just too many people who fought Shavers saying the same thing about Shavers to go along with what a bunch of people who fucking watch them on T.V. think.

Fix'd for clarity.

[dyna]

Originally Posted by thanosone

Shavers hit hard. That much is known. Boxers that were punched by him>the couple of posters here arguing that he did not.

As far as I know he has only 1 one punch KO on film.
Including his rather bad resume, he probably didn't punch that hard.

Also:
Cooney's left-hook is described as one of the most powerful punches in boxing history. Foreman, Holmes, and Lyle all stated that Cooney's left was the hardest they had ever taken. It is also notable that Holmes had also previously fought [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], and at the time stated Shavers had the most powerful blow he had ever received.