I am a boxing manager: if you have questions about the boxing biz, ask!

[lifestylechoice]

This is a great thread.

I understand if you don't want to answer this.....

At the level you and your fighters operate at how common is it for fights to be thrown? Have you ever suspected anyone you have been involved with has done this or have you ever been approached and asked to throw fights?

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by Matt Ldn

Really interesting thread.

How hard is it to get into the boxing industry?? I mean as a young guy working his way up rather than coming in as a promoter straight away are there many jobs or is it a bit of a case of getting lots of experience of the sport then jumping in as a promoter/manager?

The best way would be to hang out with the local pro's,managers, promoters, fighters, ask questions and make yourself useful. If the boxing guys in England are anything like they are here, you will find they will be willing to help you find your way. Try to learn as much as you can about the business end of boxing, after awhile people will seek you out. Hope that was helpful
if I could help just post.

[thehawk]

Thanks for the detailed response. Just a few more questions , do you think that 33 % is kind of high considering that you only take 10% ? I assume most managers take care of many fighters whereas a fighter only has his own fights to get paid in. Also as the fighter gets bigger paydays does this cut stay the same?

What do you think of the boxing business as a whole. Seems like a contractual free for all where the smartest and best legally equipped do the best. Do you think that a UFC style organisation is better or is boxing just too big worldwide for anything like that to be possible.

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

Yes the fighter is in essence the managers employer. You are right about potential trouble, and it happens but usually it's the "B" side of a card, the "A" side or the housefighter knows the deal, the "B" side fighter is clueless he's just happy to be at the dance.
Housefighter gets 75k his opponent is offered 50k to the manager, the manager, is looking to cash in, he figures, my guy has no chance, I am gonna get mine, and so he tells the fighter they offered me 25, I fought like hell but they wouldn't give me a cent more. Does it happens yes it does, should it happen, no it shouldn't.
I believe in an open book, the fighter should know the good, the bad and the ugly cos afterall its their lives and health on the line, any decisions made affect him, so I believe he should be included in the process.
The standard % by law is 33 1/3. I make do with 10%.
The major promoters sign guys based on their amateur credentials, also depends on who brings the fighter to the promoter. Remember a major promoter has guys calling them day and night saying they have the next big thing. So they tend to shy away from newbie's
Yes you are right about blurred lines, a very well known promoter really doesn't like dealing with managers. Pac has an advisor who Arum sits with and makes the deal, you dont mess with your golden goose. A smart promoter doesn't look to screw his fighters he wants to keep his fighters as happy as possible especially one like Pac.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by lifestylechoice

This is a great thread.

I understand if you don't want to answer this.....

At the level you and your fighters operate at how common is it for fights to be thrown? Have you ever suspected anyone you have been involved with has done this or have you ever been approached and asked to throw fights?

I have run across at least two that were fixed fights, and both ended badly for the guy who wanted the fix. One had to do with Joey Torres a few years back. Torres, and his oppt were about to touch gloves when Torres took a cheap shot and clipped his oppt, the oppt got pissed and hit back for real, Torres went down and out. The ref started counting, 1 'er 'er 2, um 'er 3. Torres got up wobbly, the oppt started running afraid to hit back the ref stopped the fight in the 2nd rd, with the crowd yelling "Bullshit,bullshit".
The second fight I actually saw and was asked by the fighters father who had an undefeated son who was due to fight on ESPN in 2 weeks. He asked me to offer the oppt $200 to "go easy". I told him the guy he was fighting was a jounrneyman fighter, the kid should have no problem beating him. But fathers being fathers, went to the oppt's dressing room and made his $200 offer. The fighter said to pay him up front, well, to make a long story short, the journeyman lost the decision, but he fought his ass off and with every dirty trick in the book, butted and cut the kid, effectivily knocking him out of that ESPN fight. I asked the trainer of the oppt and he told me that the kid's father had come to the dressing room, offering the oppt $200, to go easy. The journey got insulted and decided to "fuk him up anyway he could, and he did.
Thats the only time in over 30 yrs watching fights that I knew, were fixed. There may have been others but I couldn't say.
There is really no need to fix a fight nowadays, if you have an up and coming guy, you match him with somebody with less skills, no chin, and absolutely no pop. At the elite level there is too much money involved and both want to win their eyes on what comes after. Boxing, doesn't have that gangster element, like they had in the 20's-40's. Primo Carnera, Jake LaMotta were involved in fixed fights, if you read anything about them, you will see they fooled nobody.

[lifestylechoice]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

I have run across at least two that were fixed fights, and both ended badly for the guy who wanted the fix. One had to do with Joey Torres a few years back. Torres, and his oppt were about to touch gloves when Torres took a cheap shot and clipped his oppt, the oppt got pissed and hit back for real, Torres went down and out. The ref started counting, 1 'er 'er 2, um 'er 3. Torres got up wobbly, the oppt started running afraid to hit back the ref stopped the fight in the 2nd rd, with the crowd yelling "Bullshit,bullshit".
The second fight I actually saw and was asked by the fighters father who had an undefeated son who was due to fight on ESPN in 2 weeks. He asked me to offer the oppt $200 to "go easy". I told him the guy he was fighting was a jounrneyman fighter, the kid should have no problem beating him. But fathers being fathers, went to the oppt's dressing room and made his $200 offer. The fighter said to pay him up front, well, to make a long story short, the journeyman lost the decision, but he fought his ass off and with every dirty trick in the book, butted and cut the kid, effectivily knocking him out of that ESPN fight. I asked the trainer of the oppt and he told me that the kid's father had come to the dressing room, offering the oppt $200, to go easy. The journey got insulted and decided to "fuk him up anyway he could, and he did.
Thats the only time in over 30 yrs watching fights that I knew, were fixed. There may have been others but I couldn't say.
There is really no need to fix a fight nowadays, if you have an up and coming guy, you match him with somebody with less skills, no chin, and absolutely no pop. At the elite level there is too much money involved and both want to win their eyes on what comes after. Boxing, doesn't have that gangster element, like they had in the 20's-40's. Primo Carnera, Jake LaMotta were involved in fixed fights, if you read anything about them, you will see they fooled nobody.

Thanks for your response. Real interesting

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by thehawk

Thanks for the detailed response. Just a few more questions , do you think that 33 % is kind of high considering that you only take 10% ? I assume most managers take care of many fighters whereas a fighter only has his own fights to get paid in. Also as the fighter gets bigger paydays does this cut stay the same?

What do you think of the boxing business as a whole. Seems like a contractual free for all where the smartest and best legally equipped do the best. Do you think that a UFC style organisation is better or is boxing just too big worldwide for anything like that to be possible.

I do think the 33% is too high, when you realize that the fighter also has to pay 10% to his boxing coach, sometimes the trainer will say,"I will take care of the cutman and the conditioner", but that is not always the case. Some trainers will say they get 10%,and thats what they want. In that case the fighter may have to pay the cutman(1-2%) and the conditioner or asst trainer, (2-3%). If the manager is taking his 33%, then if the fighter has training camp expenses, which includes bringing in sparring. The manager and the fighter total up the expenses, and the fighter pays 66 2/3% of the expenses the manager pays 33 1/3%. Look everything is negotiable but some managers and trainers are stubborn. Every case is different, try to educate yourself on the business end of boxing. The UFC promoters are making all the money, I would think they would tell the MMA guys, you dont need no stinkin' managers this ain't boxing. If boxing managers went into UFC, fergitboutit, even the best MMA guys out there while making good money are not being paid like in boxing, when they generate huge PPV numbers which an elite MMA fighter doesnt get a share of.
MMA guys should look at the the boxers purses as opposed to theirs.
Fighters Boxer or MMA, educate yourselves to protect yourselves.

[withoutwire]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

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cool vid

any idea wtf they are doing at 7.30 wit the water and at the end with that green thing?

[dealt_with]

Originally Posted by withoutwire

cool vid

any idea wtf they are doing at 7.30 wit the water and at the end with that green thing?

With the water they are holding their breath, believing it helps with lung capacity. I doubt it does much tbh. The green thing is some sort of plant for use in the sauna, not sure exactly what it is but I know eucalyptus is used to help with immune system etc.. may be that. A bit alternative but every culture has things they believe in.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

With the water they are holding their breath, believing it helps with lung capacity. I doubt it does much tbh. The green thing is some sort of plant for use in the sauna, not sure exactly what it is but I know eucalyptus is used to help with immune system etc.. may be that. A bit alternative but every culture has things they believe in.

You seem to know the Ukrainian pretty good do you know the pro's, Senchenko, Yefimovych, Kashtanov? The coach is Igor Gapon. I know them well we used to run together in the Hollywood hills. Good guys all, they were training with Freddie Roach and Alex Araiza at the time. My guy used to spar with Yefimovych. The promoters rep who was watching Kashtanov, thought he was the best one of the three. Lomachenko would make an outstanding pro why aren't Ukrainian promoters trying to sign him or one of the major German promoters?

[dealt_with]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

You seem to know the Ukrainian pretty good do you know the pro's, Senchenko, Yefimovych, Kashtanov? The coach is Igor Gapon. I know them well we used to run together in the Hollywood hills. Good guys all, they were training with Freddie Roach and Alex Araiza at the time. My guy used to spar with Yefimovych. The promoters rep who was watching Kashtanov, thought he was the best one of the three. Lomachenko would make an outstanding pro why aren't Ukrainian promoters trying to sign him or one of the major German promoters?

Nice, Kashtanov is a good fighter but have to wait and see how he does against better opponents, I think he has an interim title now so should find out soon. Those guys are quality fighters but I think the next generation of Ukrainian pros from the olympics could be special, p4p sort of guys. I think Lomachenko is planning to turn pro in America, he's had talks with golden boy and top rank when he was in Miami. His father wants him to get the best deal, who knows who he'll be signed to in the end but I'd imagine every major promoter in the world would be putting their offers on the table. Lomachenko and his team mates agreed to a season of WSB but they seemed to make it pretty clear that they're not entering into anything long term with AIBA so that's a relief for us fans, would hate to see that sort of talent lost to that APB nonsense.

[dempsey1234]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

Nice, Kashtanov is a good fighter but have to wait and see how he does against better opponents, I think he has an interim title now so should find out soon. Those guys are quality fighters but I think the next generation of Ukrainian pros from the olympics could be special, p4p sort of guys. I think Lomachenko is planning to turn pro in America, he's had talks with golden boy and top rank when he was in Miami. His father wants him to get the best deal, who knows who he'll be signed to in the end but I'd imagine every major promoter in the world would be putting their offers on the table. Lomachenko and his team mates agreed to a season of WSB but they seemed to make it pretty clear that they're not entering into anything long term with AIBA so that's a relief for us fans, would hate to see that sort of talent lost to that APB nonsense.

Kashtanov, was kicking Peter Quillan's ass in sparring, I believe from what I heard Top Rank passed on him I believe they are making a huge mistake. Goldenboy might make an offer since they signed Ogogo, but I hope they dont wind up with Lomachenko. The promoter for Lomachenko would be Top Rank. I know the guys with K2, I 'am going to call them and find out if they are interested or if not, why not, Lomachenko has the makings of an ATG. He beat Jose Ramirez like his daddy and Ramirez started crying that they got robbed that is until everybody saw the tape, they shutup quick. Ramirez just signed with Top Rank, he didnt look all that. I wonder why Top Rank didnt sign him, cos I have spoken to one of Top Ranks people and he loves Lomachenko. Eric Fowler found out the hard way that the WSB experience was a bad one for him fowler wanted to make his pro debut in Texas. The Texas boxing mission, informed Fowler that his WSB record stands as his pro record. He was 5-2, with the WSB, Fowler couldn't fight a four rd he had to fight a six rd guy.

[Matt Ldn]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

The best way would be to hang out with the local pro's,managers, promoters, fighters, ask questions and make yourself useful. If the boxing guys in England are anything like they are here, you will find they will be willing to help you find your way. Try to learn as much as you can about the business end of boxing, after awhile people will seek you out. Hope that was helpful
if I could help just post.

I've never really considered it before just at 20 I'm starting to think about what I want to do with myself. I'm only really starting to have a few fights and go to shows (out here in Oz they do lots of Pro-Am shows) I was just curious about how people got into it.

[dealt_with]

Originally Posted by dempsey1234

Kashtanov, was kicking Peter Quillan's ass in sparring, I believe from what I heard Top Rank passed on him I believe they are making a huge mistake. Goldenboy might make an offer since they signed Ogogo, but I hope they dont wind up with Lomachenko. The promoter for Lomachenko would be Top Rank. I know the guys with K2, I 'am going to call them and find out if they are interested or if not, why not, Lomachenko has the makings of an ATG. He beat Jose Ramirez like his daddy and Ramirez started crying that they got robbed that is until everybody saw the tape, they shutup quick. Ramirez just signed with Top Rank, he didnt look all that. I wonder why Top Rank didnt sign him, cos I have spoken to one of Top Ranks people and he loves Lomachenko. Eric Fowler found out the hard way that the WSB experience was a bad one for him fowler wanted to make his pro debut in Texas. The Texas boxing mission, informed Fowler that his WSB record stands as his pro record. He was 5-2, with the WSB, Fowler couldn't fight a four rd he had to fight a six rd guy.

I think that Lomachenko didn't look as good as he usually does at those Worlds in 2011, including against Ramirez. He won comfortably imo but he didn't look like the phenom he usually does. Ramirez seems to get slower and less accurate every time I see him, he seems very determined so I think he might overtrain a bit. I actually think he has big potential if he gets his training right.
I'm sure those guys made every effort to sign Lomachenko, when you're that sort of talent you'd dictate everything and it seems that Lomachenko and his father are committed to making the right decision when it's time, they don't like to get ahead of themselves or rush anything.
I heard about that WSB thing and the pro records, pretty rotten but I don't think that will bother Lomachenko too much, he's not going to lose any fights. 5 rounds against other top amateurs and pro rules in the WSB, a 6 round debut against a lesser calibre fighter when he turns pro for real shouldn't be a challenge.
Do you know if they've made any attempts to rectify the WSB record counting as pro record thing?

[123ko]

just wondering whats the cut of the purse from a pro fight ,,,are you the promoter and manager if so do you get two cuts of the purse ,,,

[withoutwire]

Originally Posted by dealt_with

With the water they are holding their breath, believing it helps with lung capacity. I doubt it does much tbh. The green thing is some sort of plant for use in the sauna, not sure exactly what it is but I know eucalyptus is used to help with immune system etc.. may be that. A bit alternative but every culture has things they believe in.

Ya I was thinking it was alung thing allright, can't see it doing much. When I was boxing at a national tournament, the Ukrainian under 18 team were training in the same place. They looked in amazing shape, one guy did like 30 wide grip pull ups!