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Old 01-01-2013, 08:56 PM   #1
Bokaj
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Default Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

The troubles Hagler had with Mugabi is often taken as a sign of his decline. That Leonard says he saw something that convinced him he could beat Hagler reinforces this point

But looking at Hagler's fight against Roldan in 1984, when most think he still was in his prime, I don't see much difference. In this fight he also has a tough time initially and takes some huge punches that would have taken out a lesser man (even though the KD only was a glorfied slip), to eventually take over and stop his guy.

Your take?
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:17 PM   #2
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

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Originally Posted by Bokaj View Post
The troubles Hagler had with Mugabi is often taken as a sign of his decline.
Was it so much the "troubles" as it was Hagler's own form? - i.e: his punches appeared to be slower and wider against Mugabi.

Also I wouldn't be surprised if Roldan was better than Mugabi. His only losses since competing at the world class level were to the elite - Hagler, Hearns, Nunn. He didn't lose to the likes of Duane Thomas right after fighting Hagler.
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Old 01-01-2013, 09:22 PM   #3
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

I'll say this - there was absolutely, unequivocally no thumb to the eye, just as the knockdown was not a knockdown.

I do think Hagler was slowing and looked out of sorts but any difficulties were probably due to Roldan's awkward attack.

I actually thought Hagler first looked slower in the second Hamsho fight, even if the manner of victory seemed impressive. He was no longer fresh and bouncy (sounds a bit gay).

Hagler was best in his red shorts as opposed to blue (even gayer).
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Old 01-02-2013, 05:42 AM   #4
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

Marvin had lost those quick legs by the Roldan fight. He used to have a real quick first and second step and he'd throw accurately while moving those feet. By the time of Roldan, he was pretty much planting his feet to do anything.

And then he goes and fights a real tough trio of youthful pedigreed fighters that's very difficult to go 3-0 against. You just don't see matches with old champs taking on the up and comers in 3 straight fights. Just who signs those contracts? Let alone going 3-0.
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:19 AM   #5
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
I'll say this - there was absolutely, unequivocally no thumb to the eye, just as the knockdown was not a knockdown.

I do think Hagler was slowing and looked out of sorts but any difficulties were probably due to Roldan's awkward attack.

I actually thought Hagler first looked slower in the second Hamsho fight, even if the manner of victory seemed impressive. He was no longer fresh and bouncy (sounds a bit gay).

Hagler was best in his red shorts as opposed to blue (even gayer).


Roldan had good upper body movement, and as you said, he was an awkward, powerful slugger

I think Hagler was perhaps fighting Roldan too much instead of boxing him, but Roldan was able to impose his style to a certain extent with his wild rushes, and he did land a fair share of hard punches, including some uppercutts that testify once again the greatness of Hagler's chin

but I do think Hagler was a little past his prime by that point, and it was worse when he fought Mugabi of course

what is shocking about that last fight is that as Ray Leonard put it, Mugabi, the slugger, was outboxing Hagler, the boxer
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Old 01-02-2013, 09:31 AM   #6
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

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Roldan had good upper body movement, and as you said, he was an awkward, powerful slugger

I think Hagler was perhaps fighting Roldan too much instead of boxing him, but Roldan was able to impose his style to a certain extent with his wild rushes, and he did land a fair share of hard punches, including some uppercutts that testify once again the greatness of Hagler's chin

but I do think Hagler was a little past his prime by that point, and it was worse when he fought Mugabi of course

what is shocking about that last fight is that as Ray Leonard put it, Mugabi, the slugger, was outboxing Hagler, the boxer
Yeah, it must have been Mugabi's speed and reflex advantage. Leonard must have wet himself with excitement upon that revelation.

Seriously though, you have to agree - red shorts Hagler was a lot better than the 'destruction and destroy' (never made sense of that) Hagler of blue shorted fame.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:19 AM   #7
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

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Originally Posted by Rex Tickard View Post
Was it so much the "troubles" as it was Hagler's own form? - i.e: his punches appeared to be slower and wider against Mugabi.
That's true. He had a couple of wild swings with that left, which was unusual for him.

Quote:
Also I wouldn't be surprised if Roldan was better than Mugabi. His only losses since competing at the world class level were to the elite - Hagler, Hearns, Nunn. He didn't lose to the likes of Duane Thomas right after fighting Hagler.
His career took a turn downwards after facing Hagler. Could have something to do with the punsihment Hagler gave him.

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Mugabi, the slugger, was outboxing Hagler, the boxer
Saw someone here post something about that Mugabi had more boxing skills than given credit for and would show them in the gym. But come fight night he was more likely to rely on his power.

But with that said I don't know if Mugabi outboxed Hagler anymore than Roldan did. Mugabi largely relied on his reach advantage while Roldan had a good deal of success with a right uppercut counter. Awkward as he was, he showed some really nice moves in there.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:48 AM   #8
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

Roldn would give loads of middles issues in the early rounds.He was a beast there.Mixture of that and hagler starting to slow signs of aging.

Problem for Roldan was he was a frontrunner that tended to get discouraged if you were able to come out of those early rounds still firing back.
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Old 01-02-2013, 11:55 AM   #9
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

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Roldn would give loads of middles issues in the early rounds.He was a beast there.Mixture of that and hagler starting to slow signs of aging.

Problem for Roldan was he was a frontrunner that tended to get discouraged if you were able to come out of those early rounds still firing back.
He was also putting an awful lot behind every blow. That will tire you out if it doesn't have the effect you hope for.
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Old 01-02-2013, 01:02 PM   #10
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

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Originally Posted by Manassa View Post
Yeah, it must have been Mugabi's speed and reflex advantage. Leonard must have wet himself with excitement upon that revelation.

Seriously though, you have to agree - red shorts Hagler was a lot better than the 'destruction and destroy' (never made sense of that) Hagler of blue shorted fame.
I do prefer the red shorts
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Old 01-03-2013, 01:30 AM   #11
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

it wasnt the Hagler of the Sibson fight who was about as strong as Roldan. back then it looked as if Hagler was capable of anything against anyone and seemed to have an unlimited future. Like many fighters he started to level off after peaking and became slow & hittable

I agree, taking on too many young fighters hastened his departure. He was slowing & getting hit more & more altho I thought he looked dynamite vs Hamsho rematch. That right hook would have destroyed anyone past present or future. Too much raw power to stand up to.

seemed to be a shadow of his old self in the Mugabi fight, reminding me of a week old balloon. about the only weapon left with any effect was his right jab

was terrible from that point on. I'm glad he retired
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Old 01-03-2013, 03:18 AM   #12
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Default Re: Hagler vs Roldan compared to Hagler vs Mugabi?

Mickey Duff and George Francis (RIP) had Mugabi study films of Roberto Duran against Hagler and were impressed with Duran's success. So they designed his strategy based upon that. Like Duran, Mugabi attempted to counterpunch the counterpuncher. You'll notice he didn't come out swinging for the fences like he usually did.

Mugabi had some success (including that titanic uppercut that rocked Marv's head back[and was, for the record, a counter-shot]). But I wouldn't say he was ever "outboxing" Hagler.
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