The Term "Tomato Can"...

[Bugger]

We all know what a tomato can is when its referenced towards a boxer, but does anyone know how it made its way into common boxing lingo? Most boxing idioms seem to have, obvious or not so, a reference or meaning behind it... for the life of me i cant seem to connect the dots with this term.

Its a question out of sheer curiousity more than anything.

Cheers

[Seamus]

A proclivity to bleed?

[dyna]

Any fighter that ever faced a fighter I didn't like except for the the fighters he faced I liked ever, then they were simply not in their primes.

[LittleRed]

Originally Posted by dyna

Any fighter that ever faced a fighter I didn't like except for the the fighters he faced I liked ever, then they were simply not in their primes.

Drinking again dyna.

[amhlilhaus]

I think hof manager 'dumb' dan morgan coined the phrase in the 1910's.

[Ricky42791]

Originally Posted by Seamus

A proclivity to bleed?

Seamus hit it on the head. "Tomato can" comes from a fighter who will make the other fighter look good for busting them up and bleeding in the ring. it doesnt necessarily mean they were "bleeders" per se but just someone to make the other fighter look good but tomato sauce is symbolism for blood

[Unforgiven]

I thought it was just someone easy to knock over.
Back in the days before Playstation or even Atari or Space Invaders, kids used to line up empty cans and throw stones at them.

[IntentionalButt]

It used to mean a bleeder (which could denote any level, from an 0-5 failure up to a world champion) but over time that original definition has become antiquated and replaced with "someone who gets knocked out frequently".

Classic is probably not the best place to ask about contemporaneous usage, because a majority of these folk are from a time when the original meaning was more widespread.

Modern boxing fans use it to mean a low-level record padder with a notoriously bad chin. These days someone can be referred to as a tomato can without ever having broken their skin in the ring.

[IntentionalButt]

Chuck Wepner is a good example of someone who fits the original definition but not the current one.

By today's standards he is more of a journeyman or gatekeeper, a few levels above a tomato can which is the bottom rung in boxing.

He was stopped several times, but most often on cuts. It wasn't as though he had a glass jaw, nor was he towards the absolute bottom of the sport in terms of skill. (although he certainly wasn't world class, he was able to compete to a degree with those who were - something modern 'tomato cans' wouldn't be able to do...at worst he can be labeled a high-end club fighter)

[My dinner with Conteh]

Yeah, a bleeder's a few levels above the tomato can- even the 'bum' has more respect. The Bum always gives a decent account of himself despite his lack of ability. The tomato can is on a similar rung to the 'stiff' and the 'turkey'- no punch; no chin; no heart; no chance- a tasty filling a fighter can gobble up and fatten the left side of his record with.

[Manassa]

Originally Posted by My dinner with Conteh

Yeah, a bleeder's a few levels above the tomato can- even the 'bum' has more respect. The Bum always gives a decent account of himself despite his lack of ability. The tomato can is on a similar rung to the 'stiff' and the 'turkey'- no punch; no chin; no heart; no chance- a tasty filling a fighter can gobble up and fatten the left side of his record with.

Where does a cab driver rate?

[Boxed Ears]

In the spring of 1851 through to the summer of 1912 John L. Sullivan's mum would jar tomatoes. Sullivan considered this the ideal fashion to preserve fresh tomatoes for later use. So adamant was he about this sentiment that once he rose to prominence he would make public exhibitions where he'd beat a man dressed as a tomato can-a mascot, if you will, from pillar to post, Sullivan dressed himself as a jar of tomatoes.

This symbolised the superiority of the jarred method over the canned method. These mascots were usually half-starved railroad bums, often dying of TB, and were easily beaten up. Therefore, in later years, men who were easy to beat up were known as tomato cans. It all stemmed from Sullivan's mother's tomato preservation technique. And now you know the rest of the story.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Manassa

Where does a cab driver rate?

The same question was asked around 40 years ago. In order to decide if the 'cab driver' was a step up from the 'tomato can' two leg-endary heavyweights from the Land of the Horizontal took on the guise of each 'type' for Gilbert Odd's 'almanac' and fought it out to discover for themselves. Result: Cab Driver won by TKO.

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QLJhiaqkf_o[/ame]

[Manassa]

Wow. I really thought cab drivers were generally better (I normally picture a tomato can as being kicked around on the floor).

Chavez is dropping a few places, I can tell you that.

[My dinner with Conteh]

Originally Posted by Manassa

Wow. I really thought cab drivers were generally better (I normally picture a tomato can as being kicked around on the floor).

Chavez is dropping a few places, I can tell you that.

He is...just realised I put tomato can at the end by mistake. Yes, cab driver's nearly as good as a bum; he's no turkey or tomato can. I better edit.