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Old 01-04-2013, 06:57 PM   #106
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

Fury is only saying this for some publicity, look he has acheived what he set out, to have a load of MMA fans talking about him who probably never heard of him before this call out, job done ! Fury is a smart man .
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:04 PM   #107
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

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Their only weapons are their hands so hence are completely reliant on the weight distribution of their feet in a very dangerous range against a competent MT fighter.
I don't understand. How does that make any difference?

I understand that are some guys that do that like, that Panamanian boxer who was calling out Juan Manuel Lopez before he got beat by that Litzau, but he had an ugly style that was only effective due to his innate athleticism and physical characteristics, (IE, he was signficantly taller and rangier than his opponents.)

Regardless, he would have been more effective if he didn't use that type of style. You'll find that the best boxers do not put all their weight on their front foot unless it suits them for that particular moment.

For instance, say I'm pivoting off my front foot but I still want to throw an impact hook as I pivot.

There is a scenario, but that hardly leaves you in a vulnerable position because you're moving out of the way directly after impact.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:21 PM   #108
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

Honestly, I think he has a good shot.

Let's be realistic. Cain is hardly a martial artist. There is no art in what he does.

He's a punching bag that takes you down, and hits you in the back of the head.

Fury is a big strong, conditioned guy with good balance.

He ain't the best boxer, but if Cain can't take him down how he thinks he can, Cain will get stopped.

I mean, honestly, Can is just a strong bar fighter that can take a punch. No art in that. He's no Anderson Silva for example.
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:40 PM   #109
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

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Honestly, I think he has a good shot.

Let's be realistic. Cain is hardly a martial artist. There is no art in what he does.

He's a punching bag that takes you down, and hits you in the back of the head.

Fury is a big strong, conditioned guy with good balance.

He ain't the best boxer, but if Cain can't take him down how he thinks he can, Cain will get stopped.

I mean, honestly, Can is just a strong bar fighter that can take a punch. No art in that. He's no Anderson Silva for example.

Cain just beat JDS... If he was able to take down JDS, what makes you think he won't be able to take down Tyson Fury? Let me tell you something man.. JDS, Mir, Nelson, Overeem, Bigfoot etc would all beat the dog shit out of Fury in an MMA match... Forget about Cain!
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Old 01-04-2013, 07:42 PM   #110
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

A professional heavyweight boxer + 4 oz gloves is a dangerous combination. Fury hurt Chisora several times and Chisora has a decent chin.

If Tyson caught him with a half decent punch he wouldn't be able to shake it off like he would with MMA strikes.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:17 PM   #111
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

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Cain just beat JDS... If he was able to take down JDS, what makes you think he won't be able to take down Tyson Fury? Let me tell you something man.. JDS, Mir, Nelson, Overeem, Bigfoot etc would all beat the dog shit out of Fury in an MMA match... Forget about Cain!
had a lot of trouble with kimbo slice's boxing mind
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:23 PM   #112
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

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I don't understand. How does that make any difference?

I understand that are some guys that do that like, that Panamanian boxer who was calling out Juan Manuel Lopez before he got beat by that Litzau, but he had an ugly style that was only effective due to his innate athleticism and physical characteristics, (IE, he was signficantly taller and rangier than his opponents.)

Regardless, he would have been more effective if he didn't use that type of style. You'll find that the best boxers do not put all their weight on their front foot unless it suits them for that particular moment.

For instance, say I'm pivoting off my front foot but I still want to throw an impact hook as I pivot.

There is a scenario, but that hardly leaves you in a vulnerable position because you're moving out of the way directly after impact.
I think I laid this out for you before in the Savate thread didn’t I Roach?

I’m not saying they constantly put most their weight on the lead leg like Martinez does I’m saying most boxers work off the base of a 50 split depending on what they’re throwing & against an MT trained fighter 50% on you front leg is too much especially when you can’t bridge the range. Remember even the most aggressive boxers can be “controlled” or at least “managed” by kicks, straight knees counters and smothered in the clinch.

The Thai stance which some MMA guys kinda adopt is almost square on, a little squarer than a traditional boxing stance, but at kicking range with most of its weight on the anchored back foot giving you a sturdy platform to fight off and enabling you to strike with full power with every technique in your arsenal. If you’re almost square you aren’t restricted from using weapons on both the right and left of your body with almost equal power as you are in a side stance which you see often in the more traditional martial arts including boxing. Basically you can use both hands, both elbows, both knees and both feet in a split second depending on the situation all form one comfortable stance with most of the weight being on the back leg furthest away from your prey.

There are many reasons for most of the weight being on your back foot, mainly your back leg is your tree and you need to be able to counter with your lead leg fast without pulling it back. It’s also leaves your lead leg in a quick position to defend against round kicks high and low with ease as you don’t have to transfer weight. It enables you to use your front kick fast to jab and as an essential counter kick and to unset your opponent. It can be lifted quickly into a knee to break up an attempted clinch or punch combo as you lean back and push your arms out. But most importantly to this boxing relevant conversation, against an MT fighter your lead leg is a major and obvious target for damage, for setting up attacks or trying just in general to unset you and keep you off balance, so when it’s kicked you don’t want too much weight on it otherwise, it’ll be game over inside a round or you’ll be constantly off balance until you’re stopped. Like a good boxing defence a good MT defence t takes years to develop, a boxer has no idea how to defend against a kick or even how to avoid one, let alone how to defend the knee which is Kryptonite to a punch!

While we’re on the subject of legs and weight distribution with boxers, movement is often cited as a positive string to the boxers bow, but the movement integral to good boxing becomes redundant, nada, a negative. A slick boxer using his footwork to move in and out of certain ranges is causing himself massive problems against a Muay Thai fighter. The slick boxing in and out thing just doesn’t work if you are dealing with a guy who really knows how to throw straight knees a la Muay Thai. The lead knee counter is quick, more powerful than a punch and the boxer doesn’t see it coming. Combine that with everytime you jump out you are smashed with a lowkick to your lead leg where boxers tend to put at least 50% of body weight it becomes pretty tough for a boxer. Throw in everytime a boxer instinctively dips low in defense he falls onto a knee or tries to come inside to bang to the body he gets pulled into a clinch, smothered & pummelled with knees then released and hit with a quick elbow on the break life becomes even harder for the boxer. This aside from pummeling at distance from powerful round kicks that the boxer will out of instinct incorrectly block with his arms............

Shall I go on? There are so many reasons and differing scenarios as to why boxing is always going to come off second best against an unrestricted MT practioner or multi faceted MMA fighter with good MT skills.

Fury has very long legs and what look like weak knees, they'd be shattered before he even found his range.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:24 PM   #113
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Default Re: Tyson fury wants to fight Cain Velasquez...LMAO!!!

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And you think Cain hasn't trained his whole life to avoid that?

Wrestlers know how to avoid being punched when they go in for a takedown, it's kind of important as you may guess, infact there are exactly certain takedown techniques designed especially to take boxers down to minimise the chance of taking a punch on the way in.

Randy used one on Toney, actually.

In a fight, I would literally put my life on Velasquez winning, I can't see how anyone of reasonable intelligence could think that someone who has never wrested could stop Cain's takedown. It would be close to impossible.
Obviously not because mma hasn't been around his whole life and he started out as a pure wrestler
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:31 PM   #114
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Default Re: Tyson fury wants to fight Cain Velasquez...LMAO!!!

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Sorry about the repost fellas, but it's as valid in this thread as it was the equally retarded Klitchko JDS thread.

Fury ain't got a chance those glass legs would shatter!!!!

When are boxing fans gonna realise there are MMA fighters that come from a Muay Thai background and that there are more than just HWs in MMA.

I love boxing, have maximum respect for the fighters and the sport, have supplemented my MT skills heavily with boxing, so it’s safe to say I’m a fan. Boxing fans often talk about science and sure the sweet science is a beautiful thing to watch, but in the context of the argument getting made on this thread, the science is flawed. I’m not saying a top boxer can’t crossover to MMA and do well, at some time one probably will, but on the whole it ain’t gonna happen on a regular basis unless the boxer supplements heavily with MT & BJJ for quite sometime to unlearn all those “bad” habits. And that’s the point really isn’t it, the time it takes to make a boxer top quality is time NOT spent on the mat learning how to grapple or in Thailand learning how to clinch, knee, elbow and kick.

Good hands aren’t exclusive to boxing, they are core weapons to MT and even more so in K1 Kickboxing. This idea that only boxers know how to throw a punch is bit old hat and not true. Boxers struggle to beat Muay Thai fighters of equal caliber let alone MMA fighters and all the variables MMA fights bring to the table. The dynamics and “science” is just all wrong for a boxer. Boxers are ill equipped to defend against any strike other than a punch (you really don’t wanna be defending kicks with your arms!), but the most important issue all the boxing guys are missing is that due to being so heavily dependent on their hands their essential foot placement and the weight distribution between their feet makes them sitting ducks for a competent multi limbed striker like a Muay Thai fighter with a brutal low kick and powerful straight knees.

This thread’s all very hypothetical, so lets look at a bit of fact:

The most high profile and quality boxer ever to fight MMA is the KO King Yodsanan Sityodtong (Yodsanan 3K Battery) a.k.a. “The Thai Tyson” WBA Super Featherweight Champ with a record of 58-3-1 (47KOs). He debuted in 2011 and has yet to set the MMA world alight. He is better placed than most boxers as he had a pro background in Muay Thai before he became a boxer. Nothing too great, he didn’t win a stadium belt, but he was a solid pro with dynamite hands.

Here he is fighting a quality MT fighter Bovy Sor Udomsorn. They fought twice with Bovy winning both times, dropping Yodsanan in the process and this is many years after Yod’s boxing debut. Bovy’s not a top tier fighter more like an MT version of Katsidis or Gatti, a warrior who’s always in good fights. Unfortunately this action packed round is all that’s available and you can see once the elbows & knees start sinking in the tide turns……and remember Yod’s got an MT background so imagine a boxer who doesn’t understand the complicated ”science” of MT!

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Now that leads us onto this MMA debut. It was the all round package of his eight limbed MT that won him the fight not his boxing.

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Look what happens when a better grappler gets hold of him.

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Make of it what you will, but he’s the best example of a quality boxer in the MMA ring we have. He’s better placed than most boxers cos of his deep MT background, but one things very clear it ain’t as easy to cross over to MMA as many have said it would be for a boxer. One thing many boxing fans don’t understand is just how fundamentally the addition of one extra weapon makes to the dynamic of a fight let alone 6 added on top of your fists and then with the ground game thrown in with 4oz gloves! I'd say that's a whole new aspect to the “sweet science”.

As I said before I think this “if a boxer crossed over to MMA……..” stuff is a bit of a red herring. IMO the best chance MMA & Boxing fans have of seeing top quality striking in the cage is if more Thais or Thai trained foreigners crossed over. But truth is there’s enough money to be made in Thailand and Asia at the top tier of Muay Thai to keep the Thais away. (I can hear a huge sigh of relief form every western MMA fighter under 70kgs!)
but he beats the kick boxer
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:31 PM   #115
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Default Like a labrador vs pitbull (cain vs fury)

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Old 01-04-2013, 08:40 PM   #116
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y4uTU07Cfhg[/ame]
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:41 PM   #117
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Default Re: Tyson fury wants to fight Cain Velasquez...LMAO!!!

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but he beats the kick boxer
He'd have a viable chance at the kind of kickboxing Wlad used to do, basically powerless full contact Karate fused with boxing. But he'd struggle against what is essentially 'modern' kickboxing K-1 style as so much has been adopted from Muay Thai, including the boxing Kryptonite straight knee and of course the infamous MT round kick that would shatter his very long crystal legs.
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Old 01-04-2013, 08:55 PM   #118
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Default Re: Like a labrador vs pitbull (cain vs fury)

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Old 01-04-2013, 08:57 PM   #119
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

boran, I understand what you're talking about, but you got it wrong with Martinez. He occasionaly does put weight on his front foot, but only when it suits his style.

He has very good balance distribution.

Cabellero is a front footed fight. You can be a fluid, defensive fighter and have great movement, and while having excellent balance distribution.

An example of a purely defensive fighter that also has some powerful hands is Broner, yet it's easily apparent that he doesn't put his weight on his front foot.

That's a myth.

That is perpetuated by that video of the boxer that got his leg kicked out from under him. There is a reason he couldn't make it in boxing, and a big part of it is his balance distribution.

I have to say, I flat out disagree that boxing requires you to put your weight on your front foot, and believe that it's actually, quite the opposite, and it's typically detrimental to your success.
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Old 01-04-2013, 09:02 PM   #120
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Default Re: Fury calling out on UFC champ Velasquez on Twitter

I also disagree with what you say about Fury. Against some styles he would have trouble, but Cain isn't one of those styles.

Cain isn't a great kick boxer. He's basically a mauling caveman that can take a punch.

I think Fury has a decent chance. This is heavyweight. Cain is not a skilled enough fighter for his skill to really factor in this match up.

It's different if you got a true skilled heavyweight where it's obvious and you can differentiate their skills.

Like at the lower weight classes for instance, such as Jose Aldo or Anderson Silva, but I don't see much tallent at heavyweight.

There is nothing that makes me say, "wow, these guys are incredible martial artists."

In Cain, I see a guy that uses his abiltiy to take punsihment and his strenght to maul his opponent get on top of them and punch them in the back of the head.

If Fury is strong enough to prevent take downs, what else does Cain have to offer?
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