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Old 01-05-2013, 09:42 AM   #31
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Shake View Post
As others have pointed out, at no moment in history was the heavyweight champ the best in a street fight.
If they ever were, then it would likley be somebody like Jeffries or earlier, when boxing included more grapling tactics.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:43 AM   #32
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Yep.

If you realy wanted to win a fight with Wladamir Klitschko, you could just shoot him.
Or nuke his planet.
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:44 AM   #33
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Synthetic Decay View Post
Boxing is a single martial art, so at no point was that truly the case. It's just that other forms of fighting have never been popular in the west, in the modern era until now.

But no if you preserve the rule set of boxing and it is competing against a multi art discipline, then the world champ won't be seen as the main man. The talent pool in boxing is still a lot better but that is about the only advantage in such a comparison.


Boxing is one martial art. but imo it is one of the two most effective in hand to hand combat next to muay thai. In a streetfight, the last thing you want to do is wrestle from my experience, so the one who can finish a fight with as little strikes as possible is at an advantage.

now, most of the MMA fighters have mediocre striking and very good grappling.
it has been proven with guys like brock lesnar, if one is a master of one martial art, and does other martial arts to improve his skill set, he can be the UFC champ.

this is why i feel, a boxer who cross trains (in between his boxing fights) will stand a good chance against any fighter.
remember the incident off lee murray and tito ortiz? according to witnesses the dominant ufc light heavyweight champion tito ortiz (at that time) was knocked unconscious by middleweight lee murray with a 5 or 6 punch combo.

i hope that made sense
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Old 01-05-2013, 09:50 AM   #34
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

wladmir klitschko vs cain velasquez.

now wladmir is alot bigger than cain.
we all know that wlad has experience in pro kickboxing and has better boxing than cain obviously.

lets say wladmir is also a black belt in BJJ and wrestles now and again.
I would say this fight would then be a toss em fight with the advantage going to wlad because the fight starts standing where he can deliever a KO and finish the fight on the ground using his BJJ not to mention his size and strength.

point is, its about the individual, and the UFC title does not simply make one the baddest man on the planet.
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Old 01-05-2013, 11:18 AM   #35
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Big N Bad View Post
Boxing is one martial art. but imo it is one of the two most effective in hand to hand combat next to muay thai. In a streetfight, the last thing you want to do is wrestle from my experience, so the one who can finish a fight with as little strikes as possible is at an advantage.
Boxing is arguably the best martial art for dealing with multiple opponents, because it does not require you to give up your footing, and allows the rapid elimination of an opponent.
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Old 01-05-2013, 12:20 PM   #36
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Ovid***ile View Post
I've never thought of the heavyweight boxing champion as the baddest man on the planet. As much as I revere Muhammad Ali, or as scary as Mike Tyson was in the 80s I always figured that a Navy Seal would gouge their eyes and tear their throats out hand to hand, or just shoot or knife them. Boxers are athletes after all. They are very good at fighting but the kind of things I've heard people getting medals of honor for are far more impressive than boxing with Joe Frazier. Same goes for MMA guys. The baddest man on the planet is a soldier.

1974-present Chris Kyle: US Navy Seal sniper Iraq War, 160 confirmed kills
1942-1999 Carlos Hath****: Vietnam marine sniper 93 confirmed kills
1931-2007 Zhang Taofang: Chinese Korean War sniper, 214 kills in 32 days
1924-1999 Lloyd L. Burke: MOH Korean War, killed 100 men, 2 mortar, 3 machine gun nests
1924-1971 Audie Murphy: most decorated American ww2, fought off a company from a burning tank
1924-2004 Matthaus Hetzenauer- German ww2 sniper, 345 kills
1922-present Hiroo Onoda: guerrilla fighter surrendered 30 years after ww2 was over
1922-1993 Erich Hartmann: German ww2 ace, 352 aerial victories, 1,404 combat missions
1921-1945 Kurt Knispel: German ww2 tank ace, 168 destroyed enemy tanks
1921-2008 Leo Major: captured a city single handed in WW2
1919-1942 Hans-Joachim Marseille: German ww2 ace, 158 victories over western forces
1919-present Ivan Sidorenko: Russian ww2 sniper, 500 kills
1918-1991 Poon Lim: survived alone on a life raft for 133 days, ate sharks
1916-1982 Hans-Ulrich Rudel: ww2 german stuka pilot, 2,530 combat missions, 800 vehicles, 519 tanks, 150 artillery pieces, a destroyer, two cruisers, one Soviet battleship, 70 landing craft, 4 armored trains, several bridges and nine aircraft which he shot down.
1916-1974 Lyudmila Pavlichenko: Russian ww2 sniper, 309 confirmed kills
1915-1991 Vasily Zaytsev: Russian ww2 sniper, 242 verified kills
1914-1942 Michael Wittmann: German ww2 tank ace, 138 tanks, 132 anti-tank guns
1913-1994 Johannes Steinhoff: German ww2 ace 176 aerial victories
1908-1994 Charles Upham: New Zealand ww2, 2VCs, and some awesome escapes as a POW
1908-1975 Otto Skorzeny: German ww2, led a series of daring raids, rescued Mussolini
1906-1996 Jack Churchill: WW2 soldier fought with broadsword and bow
1905-2002 Simo Hayha: Winter War Finnish sniper 505 confirmed kills, +200 submachinegun
1898-1971 Chesty Puller: most decorated U.S. Marine in history 5 Navy Crosses
1892-1918 Manfred von Richthofen: Red Baron, German ww1, 80 air combat victories
1891-1952 Francis Pegamagabow: Canadian ww1 sniper, 378 kills, 300 captures
1887-1964 Alvin C. York: most decorated ww1 American, killed 28, captured 132, and 32 mchguns
1886-1943 Billy Sing: Australian ww1 sniper: 150 confirmed kills
1873-1937 Daniel Daly: 2MOH, killed 200 in Boxer Rebellion
1837-1876 Wild Bill Hickok: lawman, duelist, and gambler shot between 30 and 100 men
1824-1900 Liver-Eating Johnson: 12 year one man war against Crow Indians
1823-1887 John Prettyjohns: first VC recipient Cremea War, ran out of bullets, used rocks instead
1816-? Jonathan R. Davis: killed 11 bandits with 2 pistols and a bowie knife
1796-1836 James Bowie: knife fighter, frontiersman, soldier, died at the Alamo
1785-1865 Jean-Louis Michel: Napoleonic fencer, defeated 13 opponents in 40 minutes
1780-1833 Hugh Glass: killed bear with knife, left for dead, crawled 200 miles to safety
1763-1808 Lewis Wetzel: Indian Hunter, guerrilla sniper
1754-1834 Richard Martin: fought over 100 duels with swords, knives, and pistols, survived 2 shipwrecks
1664-1730 Donald McBane: swordsman, soldier, gambler, pimp, and author
1584-1645 Miyamoto Musashi: victor of 60 sword duels
1147-1219 William Marshal: defeated 500 knights in tourneys
996-1031 Grettir Ásmundarson: Icelandic outlaw 20 years, fought multiple opponents at a time
910-990 Egill Skallagrimson: viking, pirate, mercenary, duelist, poet
48BC Marcus Cassius Scaeva: Caesar's greatest soldier
54BC Titus Pullo: Roman Centurion, played a great game of chicken with another soldier
d.479BC Aristodemos: Spartan survivor of Thermopylae, hero of the Battle of Plataea
508BC Horatius Cocles: held an army off at a bridge until it could be destroyed
This is really bad ass, thanks for this!!!!
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:08 PM   #37
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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I'm 39 and as a kid I thought Six Million Dollar Man Col. Steve Austin could've kicked anyone's ass.
I'm 38, and when I was a kid, the Incredible Hulk was the baddest thing going!
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:28 PM   #38
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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I'm 38, and when I was a kid, the Incredible Hulk was the baddest thing going!
Yeah, I can relate to that. It actually scared the shit out of me.
The Bixby/Ferrigno set-up was awesome.

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Old 01-06-2013, 06:32 PM   #39
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:44 PM   #40
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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If a top tennis player like Jokovich were to match himself against an average player in the Pro Squash Tour and get beaten without winning a single game then would that speak badly against his tennis prowess? I doubt it would, and those two sports at least have superficial similarities. Punching someone in the face and twisting their limbs till they squeal don't have much in common except for trying to cause the other person damage and pain. Kimbo, whatever you may think of him, has trained in MMA for a longer period of time than Mercer, and has more experience of applying (and I assume defending against) jointlocks. Mercer's extensive amateur career and impressive professional record don't have any bearing on that.
Yeah, but Ray Mercer knew that he was fighting Kimbo Slice in an MMA match, not a boxing match. Both guys were novice MMA practicioners; actually, I think Mercer had more experience crossing over into MMA than Kimbo did at the time. And the reason I stressed Mercer's boxing background is because it gave Mercer a solid base with which to incorporate any new MMA skills. Mercer was a seasoned, professional fighter (albeit past his prime), and Kimbo was basically just a street tough. So Mercer was a novice MMA fighter with a seasoned boxing background; Kimbo was a novice MMA fighter with no professional boxing background. And yet he beat Mercer easily. And it wasn't like Kimbo took him down right away. Watch the fight and you can see that Kimbo actually stood with Mercer and punched for several seconds before taking Mercer down.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:46 PM   #41
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
If a top tennis player like Jokovich were to match himself against an average player in the Pro Squash Tour and get beaten without winning a single game then would that speak badly against his tennis prowess? I doubt it would, and those two sports at least have superficial similarities. Punching someone in the face and twisting their limbs till they squeal don't have much in common except for trying to cause the other person damage and pain. Kimbo, whatever you may think of him, has trained in MMA for a longer period of time than Mercer, and has more experience of applying (and I assume defending against) jointlocks. Mercer's extensive amateur career and impressive professional record don't have any bearing on that.
Yeah, but Ray Mercer knew that he was fighting Kimbo Slice in an MMA match, not a boxing match. Both guys were novice MMA practicioners; actually, I think Mercer had more experience crossing over into MMA than Kimbo did at the time. And the reason I stressed Mercer's boxing background is because it gave Mercer a solid base with which to incorporate any new MMA skills. Mercer was a seasoned, professional fighter (albeit past his prime), and Kimbo was basically just a street tough. So Mercer was a novice MMA fighter with a seasoned boxing background; Kimbo was a novice MMA fighter with no professional boxing background. And yet he beat Mercer easily. And it wasn't like Kimbo took him down right away. Watch the fight and you can see that Kimbo actually stood with Mercer and punched for several seconds before taking Mercer down.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:48 PM   #42
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Absolutely! View Post
If a top tennis player like Jokovich were to match himself against an average player in the Pro Squash Tour and get beaten without winning a single game then would that speak badly against his tennis prowess? I doubt it would, and those two sports at least have superficial similarities. Punching someone in the face and twisting their limbs till they squeal don't have much in common except for trying to cause the other person damage and pain. Kimbo, whatever you may think of him, has trained in MMA for a longer period of time than Mercer, and has more experience of applying (and I assume defending against) jointlocks. Mercer's extensive amateur career and impressive professional record don't have any bearing on that.
Yeah, but Ray Mercer knew that he was fighting Kimbo Slice in an MMA match, not a boxing match. Both guys were novice MMA practicioners; actually, I think Mercer had more experience crossing over into MMA than Kimbo did at the time. And the reason I stressed Mercer's boxing background is because it gave Mercer a solid base with which to incorporate any new MMA skills. Mercer was a seasoned, professional fighter (albeit past his prime), and Kimbo was basically just a street tough. So Mercer was a novice MMA fighter with a seasoned boxing background; Kimbo was a novice MMA fighter with no professional boxing background. And yet he beat Mercer easily. And it wasn't like Kimbo took him down right away. Watch the fight and you can see that Kimbo actually stood with Mercer and punched for several seconds before taking Mercer down.

Last edited by AnthonyJ74; 01-06-2013 at 06:49 PM. Reason: triple post
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:52 PM   #43
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by Bollox View Post
True but the aesthetcs are dead wrong. Seeing a wrestler wrigling around on the ground is somehow a bit less than inspirational than the HW champ throwing a beautiful combination that ends with the opponent sprawled on the canvas
I agree. Ending a fight with a knockout punch just seems so much more manly and absolute than submitting someone in a triangle choke or an arm bar.
Punch for punch, mano y mano, toe-to-toe -- all of that!
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:53 PM   #44
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Originally Posted by rusak View Post
The heavyweight boxing champion as "the baddest man on the planet"? That was dumb then and it's dumb now. You really think that any heavyweight boxing champion would have an easy time with a wrestling champion of comparable size? The boxer's only chance would be to strike first and get a quick KO. Otherwise, the wrestler will take the boxer down and from there the boxer is at a huge disadvantage. And this is from before MMA even existed.
Yeah, you are probably right. I'm sure there were guys around in 1973-1974 that could have made the ominous and imposing "Big" George Foreman look anything but invincible.
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Old 01-06-2013, 06:55 PM   #45
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Default Re: Heavyweight boxing champion still the baddest man on the planet or not?

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Yeah, I can relate to that. It actually scared the shit out of me.
The Bixby/Ferrigno set-up was awesome.

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Six Million Dollar Man was awesome though. As a kid, I used to run around in slow motion trying to imitate his bionic run -- it was awesome!
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