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View Poll Results: Should PED used be allowed in the HOF
Yes, can't deny what they accomplished 8 24.24%
No, the steroid usage denies them all credibility 25 75.76%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-11-2013, 08:09 PM   #16
TeflonDom
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

At first I voted no but **** it. Try telling Ben Johnson he didn't cross the line first. We all saw him win.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:16 PM   #17
JMP
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

Yes for any sport, boxing included.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:23 PM   #18
KO KIDD
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

How do we know PED users arent already in there

steroids arent a modern invention theyve existed for decades

should we maybe go study these guys who are already in too and kick them out?

i mean im under the impression they have run rampant through the sport at many levels

as others said PED's dont make talent
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:24 PM   #19
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

They been heavily use for over 40 years, people just got good at catching them.
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Old 01-11-2013, 08:25 PM   #20
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

Difficult one. It would be one way of making a stand against doping in the sport (although admittedly not a very effective one). Boxing still seems to employ the ostrich approach to dealing with the issue, and bizarrely many fans refuse to believe that there is a problem in the sport and that fighters can benefit from Performance Enhancing Drugs (the name is a bit of clue, dipshits...)

On the other hand, it is problematic because the documented cases are likely to be just the tip of the iceberg, and the testing and punishments are so shit that we never get to the bottom of when a fighter started taking PEDs, what exactly they took, and what benefit they gained from it. In other sports (eg athletics), a positive test results in a lengthy ban, restrictions on when and where you can compete, loss of sponsorship, tarnished reputation, lengthy rehabilitation, tell-all book deal etc etc. In boxing, the fighter claims they took unwittingly nandrolone in cough syrup when they had manflu (or some shit like that) and everyone pretends it never happened.
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:50 PM   #21
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

Plain & simple, NO!
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Old 01-11-2013, 09:59 PM   #22
Overhill
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

Could somebody post a list of supposed clean, elite fighters?

( )
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Old 01-12-2013, 07:49 AM   #23
pecho26
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

Ofc they should.You gotta be realistic here and face the facts that every boxer or profesional athlere are on some sort of peds.
When you see what goes on amateur levels,when the guys take ephedrine b4 their fights in front of me you gotta wonder what goes around on profesional levels.
You have guys who snort cocaine after their career and people pretend oh yea they didnt do it during their career,gimme a break.You dont discover that shit after you are done with boxing.
It is what it is,and anybody who thinks that its different is either blind or very stupid and ignorant.
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Old 01-12-2013, 11:23 AM   #24
kmac
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Default Re: Should PED users be allowed in the hall of fame?

article done on this topic from boxing monthly

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

In the not too distant future the International Boxing Hall of Fame will have a sticky issue to address: Should fighters who have tested positive for performance enhancing drugs (PEDs) be accepted for induction? STEVE FARHOOD reports

Another year of inductions at the International Boxing Hall of Fame has come and gone. When Danny “Little Red” Lopez and Jung Koo Chang were enshrined on 13 June, there was celebration and salutation, not suspicion.

That might not be the case in years to come.

When featherweight great Lopez had his fist cast on the grounds of the Hall, fans weren’t whispering that his legendary punching power and remarkable ability to recover from early-round knockdowns had been aided by steroids.

And when junior flyweight legend Chang signed autographs and posed for photos, no one wondered whether “The Korean Hawk’s” 6-year reign had been extended by blood doping or human growth hormone.

Lopez fought in the ’70s and Chang in the ’80s. All fighters were presumably clean back then, at least of performance-enhancing drugs. But today, PEDs all too often seem to overshadow the races, matches, and games of sport.

And sometimes the fights, too.

When a dispute over conditions of blood-testing for a Floyd Mayweather-Manny Pacquiao superfight forced a cancellation of initial negotiations, boxing fans were reminded of the relevance of PEDs.

In fact, some of boxing’s biggest names have either been flat-out caught or at least suspected of cheating. Consider:

l In May 2000, Roy Jones tested positive for Androstenedione after his stoppage victory over Richard Hall in Indianapolis. At the time, the supplement was available over-the-counter, but banned by the IBF. (Hall tested positive for the same substance.) Jones was neither suspended nor fined.

l After a heavyweight title fight vs John Ruiz in 2005, James Toney tested positive for Stanozolol, and after his bout vs Danny Batchelder in 2007, he tested positive for Stanozolol and Boldenone. The positive result after the Ruiz fight cost Toney the WBA title.

Toney claimed the drugs had been prescribed to help heal an arm injury.

l In sworn testimony, Shane Mosley admitted that prior to his win over Oscar De La Hoya in 2003, he used the designer steroids “the cream” and “the clear”, and was injected with EPO (Erythropoietin), the blood oxygen enhancer.

l In 2007, Sports Illustrated cited law enforcement documents stating that various PEDs, including testosterone and human growth hormone, were delivered to an “Evan Fields”. The customer had the same date of birth as Evander Holyfield, and the address of the recipient was similar to that of the former heavyweight champion. It was reported by SI that when reporters dialled the phone number listed in the documents, Holyfield answered.

Holyfield has never tested positive for PEDs.

“I do not use steroids,” he said. “I have never used steroids.”

According to SI, Dr Margaret Goodman, the former chairwoman of the medical advisory board of the Nevada State Athletic Commission, said that as early as 1994, the medical arm of the commission questioned Holyfield about possible HGH use because his heart problems could have been consistent with a growth hormone user.

l Other championship-level fighters who have tested positive for PEDs include Fernando Vargas, Mariano Carrera, Frans Botha, Shannon Briggs, and Orlando Salido, among others.

For fighters, the criteria for induction into the International Boxing Hall of Fame are simple and singular: “Voting shall be based upon a boxer’s achievements in the ring as a professional boxer.”

A fighter is eligible for consideration no sooner than five years after his last bout.

According to IBHF Executive Director Ed Brophy, roughly 70% of the voters in the Modern Era category (last bout no earlier than 1943) are full members of the Boxing Writers Association of America.

The top three vote-getters are enshrined annually.

“We feel comfortable with the criteria,” Brophy said. “It’s worked very well so far.”

Regardless, in a few years, voters are going to have some tough choices to make.

A cross-section of voters and other interested parties revealed both strong opinion and ambivalence.

Dan Rafael, ESPN.com: “When I vote, I’ll consider any fighter’s steroid history, but it will not necessarily make somebody ineligible in my mind.

“Unfortunately, there are fighters in recent years who I believe are Hall of Fame-worthy, but have tarnished themselves by being involved with steroids in some form or fashion. Toney, Mosley and Jones are the obvious examples. Each was involved to a different degree. However, I believe they were already deserving of being in the Hall of Fame before their steroid issues. As a voter, you have to balance that with the offence. “It’s a tough situation and one that I’ll definitely weigh when it comes to casting a vote.”

Dr Margaret Goodman, former chairwoman of the medical advisory board of the Nevada State Athletic Commission: “It’s a difficult dilemma. I don’t believe fighters caught using PEDs should be permanently penalised from competing once they have been cleared and followed, ruling out continued use. But when it comes to the Hall of Fame, this is where boxing can show it’s better than other sports that don’t take a strong stand against PED use. I believe it’s fair to list the athlete’s accomplishments, but the fighter should never be officially nominated to the Hall.

“Using PEDs has to come at a price. Unlike other sports, the risk to the opponent is so great — having possibly lethal implications — that proven usage is reason enough for exclusion. This is especially true because of the lack of standardised PED-testing among commissions, allowing a fighter to jurisdiction-shop to avoid usage-discovery.”

Ron Borges, Vice President, Boxing Writers Association of America: “I don’t know for sure how I’ll vote, but my general take is to just vote no.

“You have to take each case individually. A guy like Toney took something to speed up the healing process [from an injury]. I think Mosley was a user for a while. I have a hard time with the “I-didn’t-know” excuse. Holyfield is gonna be difficult. He never tested positive, but we know about the check and the delivery.

“Am I gonna keep one or two guys out when there are 20 who did it and we’re not sure about? But if I vote no on Mosley, I’ll probably vote no on Toney and no on Jones.”

Melvina Lathan, Chairwoman of the New York State Athletic Commission: “If someone is caught, who knows if that fighter was previously doing it. And a fighter with unnatural power is capable of doing serious damage. But given the criteria of the Hall of Fame, you have to take each case on an individual basis. Maybe the criteria should be updated. If it isn’t, the decision to vote for or against is individual and very subjective.

“Was Roy Jones’s transgression as egregious as some of the others? No. My reaction to individual fighters depends partly on what was used and whether they were hiding it.

“It’s a tough question.”

For American boxing writers who have a vote, it’s impossible not to relate the process to that of the baseball writers. But baseball’s hall of fame, located in Cooperstown, New York, applies different criteria than the IBHF:

“Voting shall be based upon the player’s record, playing ability, integrity, sportsmanship, character, and contributions to the team(s) on which the player played.”

The test case has been Mark McGwire, who in January admitted to 10 years of on-off steroid use.

McGwire hit 583 home runs, which places him among the Top 10 all-time. In 1998, he smashed a then-record 70 homers. Based on his power-hitting alone, McGwire’s statistics would normally result in first-ballot induction. That, however, has been anything but the case.

For enshrinement in Cooperstown, a player needs to be included on 75% of the ballots. In 2007, which was McGwire’s first year of eligibility, he received only 23.5% of the vote. In 2008, he received 23.6%, and in 2009, 21.9%. And that was before he publicly acknowledged what the voters had long suspected.

How baseball writers will vote for legendary players who have admitted to cheating or are suspected of PED use remains to be seen because those superstars, including all-time home runs king Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens, Alex Rodriguez, Manny Ramirez, and Sammy Sosa, either remain active or haven’t yet been retired for five years.

What shouldn’t be forgotten: Hitting a baseball and hitting a fellow fighter are two very different things.

Wallace Matthews, former president of the Boxing Writers Association; baseball writer for Espn.com/New York: “In baseball, I did not vote for Mark McGwire. I wouldn’t vote for anybody who’s proven to have cheated with steroids. The criteria include integrity, character, and respect for the game. If you’ve used steroids, you’ve failed consistently.

“In boxing, an offence can potentially cost a guy his life. If you keep fighting when the other guy is tired, you can do real damage. You can kill somebody. It’s almost the equivalent of taking a deadly weapon into the ring.

“It would kill me not to vote for Evander Holyfield, but it’s a really tough call.”

A hall of fame without Shane Mosley, James Toney and Roy Jones? I wouldn’t bet on it. After all, this is boxing, where the line between cheater and hero is often blurred.

It’ll be a few years before we know how the HOF question will play out. In the meantime, a few more big-name fighters will surely be caught.

Sorry to inconvenience everyone, but the use of PEDs is a problem that isn’t going to go away. How it will ultimately affect a fighter’s legacy remains to be seen.
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