Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend?

Haggis McJackass · 01-13-2013, 08:21 AM

A fight is just a fight. Weird things can happen, unusual outcomes can occur.

For this reason, some take the attitude that a title is only really solidified in a man's hands when he has successfully defended it. Because until then, he just won a fight.

Someone like Matt Serra, for example, who finds himself in the right place at the right time, sprung an upset and became champion, decisively lost the rematch and then never got another chance at the gold?

Or Benson, who took the title in a close, disputed decision?

Or is this depending on the case? For example, someone who cleans out the division before he gets his shot at the title? Or someone like Jones, who just completely destroyed all of his competition up to and including a massacre of the title-holder?

benebox · 01-13-2013, 10:52 AM

If you beat the champion you are the champion. What happens if a guy won the belt 3 times but never succesfully defended it

BobDigi5060 · 01-13-2013, 01:21 PM

Haggis, I agree.

caleb_forrest_g · 01-13-2013, 02:55 PM

ive never like the whole defended the belt talk. My buddy is a huge Rampage fan, and im a Forrest fan and every time we staring talking about Forrest beating rampage and taking his belt, all he has in he didnt defend it, or at least rampage defended it. I say if you beat the champion, i dont care if u defend it or not, aat that time you beat the best fighter in the world.

So thats what i think : )

ozziebattler · 01-13-2013, 03:41 PM

If u beat the champ you are a true champion yourself .

But ofcourse a few title defences goes a huge way on ones title reigns legacy .

BobDigi5060 · 01-13-2013, 04:04 PM

My thinking is that if you win a Title then of course your the Champ, but only a Title holder until you actually defend the belt. No other way to explain myself other than my name is BobDigi, my story, and I'm sticking to it.

rusty nails · 01-13-2013, 05:40 PM

no you beat the champ you are the champ end of story

SugarShane_24 · 01-13-2013, 06:51 PM

I think it's more of a pride thing.

Agree with everyone here, you have the belt, you are the champ.

Haggis McJackass · 01-13-2013, 06:52 PM

I take it case-by-case.

For example, when Bendo beat Edgar I had him winning the fight, but it was close enough that I didn't really view him as THE man yet. I have the mentality that a challenger has to take the belt from the champion, and Bendo didn't really do that.

Rematch comes around and I had Bendo winning another close fight. But I wanted to see him against a top contender, because he hadn't really stamped his authority on either title fight. After he dominated Nate, now I'm happy that Bendo is clearly and decisively the champ.

Jon Jones, on the other hand? As soon as he murdered Shogun, that was a strong enough statement that he was CLEARLY The Man in the division.

Haggis McJackass · 01-13-2013, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SugarShane_24

I think it's more of a pride thing.

Agree with everyone here, you have the belt, you are the champ.

Oh yeah, you win the belt and you're the champ of course, nobody can take that away from you. But you generally have to defend in order to solidify your claim. I mean, all kinds of people get title shots, and sometimes fights are won more or less by fluke.

Take Serra, for example. He'll always be able to call himself a former UFC champion, and fair play to him. But did anyone really believe that he was the alpha welterweight while he was wearing that belt? He needed to defend to show that his title reign was more than the result of a lucky punch.

thejokerswild · 01-14-2013, 03:14 AM

I dont know, Serra had to rematch because everyone called the upset. He was champ because he got the lineage. But you're not a real champ unless its undisputed. Or you won the support of the people atleast

macp1 · 01-14-2013, 05:20 AM

did anyone really think of Rahman as The Champ? Or Buster Douglas? Or McCall? I know different sport, but same idea.

BobDigi5060 · 01-14-2013, 06:03 AM

These last two posts, exactly. Especially the part about being recognized by the people (I would quote if I could).

01-13-2013, 08:21 AM	#1
Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: From the Lands Down Under. Posts: 22,523 vCash: 177	Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? A fight is just a fight. Weird things can happen, unusual outcomes can occur. For this reason, some take the attitude that a title is only really solidified in a man's hands when he has successfully defended it. Because until then, he just won a fight. Someone like Matt Serra, for example, who finds himself in the right place at the right time, sprung an upset and became champion, decisively lost the rematch and then never got another chance at the gold? Or Benson, who took the title in a close, disputed decision? Or is this depending on the case? For example, someone who cleans out the division before he gets his shot at the title? Or someone like Jones, who just completely destroyed all of his competition up to and including a massacre of the title-holder?
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01-13-2013, 10:52 AM	#2
benebox Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 922 vCash: 75	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? If you beat the champion you are the champion. What happens if a guy won the belt 3 times but never succesfully defended it
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01-13-2013, 01:21 PM	#3
BobDigi5060 East Side MMA East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX Posts: 8,953 vCash: 553	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? Haggis, I agree.
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01-13-2013, 02:55 PM	#4
caleb_forrest_g Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: nashville tennessee Posts: 676 vCash: 500	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? ive never like the whole defended the belt talk. My buddy is a huge Rampage fan, and im a Forrest fan and every time we staring talking about Forrest beating rampage and taking his belt, all he has in he didnt defend it, or at least rampage defended it. I say if you beat the champion, i dont care if u defend it or not, aat that time you beat the best fighter in the world. So thats what i think : )
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01-13-2013, 03:41 PM	#5
ozziebattler Shadow Boxer ESB Addict Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Wild West of Sydney Posts: 4,236 vCash: 1000	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? If u beat the champ you are a true champion yourself . But ofcourse a few title defences goes a huge way on ones title reigns legacy .
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01-13-2013, 04:04 PM	#6
BobDigi5060 East Side MMA East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX Posts: 8,953 vCash: 553	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? My thinking is that if you win a Title then of course your the Champ, but only a Title holder until you actually defend the belt. No other way to explain myself other than my name is BobDigi, my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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01-13-2013, 05:40 PM	#7
rusty nails Tszyu for PM!! East Side Guru Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: dunno..where am i??? Posts: 6,722 vCash: 1000	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? no you beat the champ you are the champ end of story
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01-13-2013, 06:51 PM	#8
SugarShane_24 ESB good-looking member ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: the few, the proud, the Philippines Posts: 4,780 vCash: 449	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? I think it's more of a pride thing. Agree with everyone here, you have the belt, you are the champ.
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01-13-2013, 06:52 PM	#9
Haggis McJackass Semi-neutralist Overseer East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: From the Lands Down Under. Posts: 22,523 vCash: 177	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? I take it case-by-case. For example, when Bendo beat Edgar I had him winning the fight, but it was close enough that I didn't really view him as THE man yet. I have the mentality that a challenger has to take the belt from the champion, and Bendo didn't really do that. Rematch comes around and I had Bendo winning another close fight. But I wanted to see him against a top contender, because he hadn't really stamped his authority on either title fight. After he dominated Nate, now I'm happy that Bendo is clearly and decisively the champ. Jon Jones, on the other hand? As soon as he murdered Shogun, that was a strong enough statement that he was CLEARLY The Man in the division.
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01-14-2013, 03:14 AM	#11
thejokerswild P4P King East Side VIP Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Australia Posts: 18,179 vCash: 75	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? I dont know, Serra had to rematch because everyone called the upset. He was champ because he got the lineage. But you're not a real champ unless its undisputed. Or you won the support of the people atleast
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01-14-2013, 05:20 AM	#12
macp1 Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: St. Catharines Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,587 vCash: 75	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? did anyone really think of Rahman as The Champ? Or Buster Douglas? Or McCall? I know different sport, but same idea.
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01-14-2013, 06:03 AM	#13
BobDigi5060 East Side MMA East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: TX Posts: 8,953 vCash: 553	Re: Do you agree with the saying that you're not truly the champion until you defend? These last two posts, exactly. Especially the part about being recognized by the people (I would quote if I could).
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