Mac Foster vs. Ali...?

Russell · 01-04-2008, 10:01 PM

One of the least discussed Ali fights, I think.

Boring as hell, I've heard.

Did Ali take any monster shots, at all?

Further cement his ridiculously good chin, I guess.

Russell · 02-06-2008, 05:55 PM

On top of wanting to know about this fight, I'm curious about Foster in general.

Has anyone seen any of his fights? Is his reputation as one of the hardest HW hitters of all time a solid one?

I've seen him against Quarry, and he fucking whacked Quarry with some monster shots.

Sardu · 02-06-2008, 10:12 PM

This fight was over in Japan. Afterwards Ali claimed Foster gave him more problems than Frazier did. I read that Foster was very slow and did not hit Ali with more than one punch at a time. Ali won going away and there were no knockdowns although Ali rung Foster's bell with some stinging combos in I believe the 9th round. That's all I know.

Russell · 02-06-2008, 10:25 PM

Thanks.

Know anything else about Foster?

kenmore · 02-06-2008, 10:45 PM

Portions of this fight can be viewed on youtube.com. Foster looks terrible. He is always off balance, and can't hit Ali with anything. He looks clumsy, only throws one punch at a time, and is generally slow.

Ali took it easy with Foster. He toyed with him. Many writers believe that Ali could have knocked Foster out if he had made a serious effort to do so.

In Foster's defense, it's possible that the Ali fight took place when he was well past his prime. After losing to Quarry, Foster may not have had the motivation and focus necessary to fight his best. Who knows.

Foster could hit very hard, no doubt. However I don't think he is regarded as "one of the hardest punchers of all time." He was not a puncher in the same league as Foreman and Shavers.

As for the Quarry fight, I saw it and I don't remember Foster landing any really heavy leather on Jerry. Quarry seemed to dodge most of Foster's punches.

An important thing to remember about Foster is that he got a very late start in boxing. He was a machine gunner in Vietnam during his early and middle twenties, and he didn't turn pro until after he was discharged from the army. Because of this late start, Foster didn't really get a chance to acquire lots of seasoning as a pro. He didn't really get a chance to seriously learn his craft. I think his managers rushed him.

Foster was a lot like Gerry Cooney, as both were big punchers who were rushed into the big time without getting sufficient seasoning first. As a result, both were over-dependent on their punching power.

Russell · 02-06-2008, 10:56 PM

Both Foreman and Shavers are considered some of the hardest hitters of all time...

Thanks for the information, kenmore.

kenmore · 02-06-2008, 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Russell

Both Foreman and Shavers are considered some of the hardest hitters of all time...

Thanks for the information, kenmore.

I'll give you some information based on what I remember from the boxing magazines as a kid.

Going into the Quarry fight, Foster was regarded as a hot prospect, almost as promising as George Foreman. Foster was ranked in the top four worldwide at that point, and he was favored to beat Jerry. Of course Quarry exposed Foster's weaknesses and knocked him out.

Until the Quarry fight, the boxing magazines were doing a lot of stories about Foster. The public and media were fascinated by Foster's record of scoring devastating early kayoes.

After losing to Quarry, Foster remained in the top 10 until 1973, when he was upset by a clubfighter named Bob Stallings. This loss was regarded as a shock because Stallings had a record of 17-24. Foster had been expected to win easily.

Later in 1973, Foster was easily decisioned by Joe Bugner in London. Foster lost every round of this fight. The Bugner defeat dropped Foster from the ratings permanently.

Foster fought only two more times after 1973, losing decisions to fringe contenders Henry Clark and Stan Ward.

AREA 53 · 02-07-2008, 09:48 AM

I think that there3 is little doubt that Mac was indeed a Hard Puncher, but i suspect he was not overly harder hitting then a lot of other heavies from around that period, Alvin Blue Lewis, Jeff Merritt, Jose Luis Garcia Al Jones, Ect Ect, it was probably a case of Mac being better managed as an emerging prospect then the aforementioned, Mac Pre Quarry Test saw him 24-0 - 24ko's but scratch below the surface and you will see a mix of tired old veterans like Folly and Big Cat Williams, or 3rd division trial horses like Roger Rischer, It does not mean that Big Mac could not Punch...He Could, but the ancilliary attributes required to maintain in the top flight just did not seem to be there. But he added some coulourful Ink for awhile.

Mendoza · 02-07-2008, 09:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenmore

Portions of this fight can be viewed on youtube.com. Foster looks terrible. He is always off balance, and can't hit Ali with anything. He looks clumsy, only throws one punch at a time, and is generally slow.

Ali took it easy with Foster. He toyed with him. Many writers believe that Ali could have knocked Foster out if he had made a serious effort to do so.

In Foster's defense, it's possible that the Ali fight took place when he was well past his prime. After losing to Quarry, Foster may not have had the motivation and focus necessary to fight his best. Who knows.

Foster could hit very hard, no doubt. However I don't think he is regarded as "one of the hardest punchers of all time." He was not a puncher in the same league as Foreman and Shavers.

As for the Quarry fight, I saw it and I don't remember Foster landing any really heavy leather on Jerry. Quarry seemed to dodge most of Foster's punches.

An important thing to remember about Foster is that he got a very late start in boxing. He was a machine gunner in Vietnam during his early and middle twenties, and he didn't turn pro until after he was discharged from the army. Because of this late start, Foster didn't really get a chance to acquire lots of seasoning as a pro. He didn't really get a chance to seriously learn his craft. I think his managers rushed him.

Foster was a lot like Gerry Cooney, as both were big punchers who were rushed into the big time without getting sufficient seasoning first. As a result, both were over-dependent on their punching power.

Post more often Kenmore. I thought Mac Foster looked slow and off balance vs Quarry too.

It is odd that Ali vs Mac Foster or Ali vs Bob Foster are seldom replayed.

kenmore · 02-07-2008, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AREA 53

I think that there3 is little doubt that Mac was indeed a Hard Puncher, but i suspect he was not overly harder hitting then a lot of other heavies from around that period, Alvin Blue Lewis, Jeff Merritt, Jose Luis Garcia Al Jones, Ect

I saw Al Blue Lewis's fight aganist Ali on youtube.com and I was fascinated. My impression is that Lewis may have been a far better fighter than given credit for. He appeared to trouble Ali in their bout.

Bokaj · 02-07-2008, 02:05 PM

I've seen the last two rounds of this fight. In the last round Foster is groggy and exhausted, but when he gets up from the first knock-down Ali won't finish him off, content to just pity-pat him, probably loathe to cause him any damage. It looks kind of bizarre, actually.

Concerning Ali's fight against Al Blue Lewis that's a good one judging from the rounds I've seen. Lewis gets knocked-down in the fifth round, but the ref:s count is very slow so he gets up. If the count had been only ten seconds (I think it's almost 15) Lewis probably wouldn't have made it.

After that Ali hurts him several times, but he just won't go down and it almost looks like Ali is gonna punch himself out at one point. He doesn't though and ends it in the 11:th, I think. Lewis is extremely game and takes A LOT of punishment before eventuallt succumbing.

Mendoza · 02-07-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kenmore

I saw Al Blue Lewis's fight aganist Ali on youtube.com and I was fascinated. My impression is that Lewis may have been a far better fighter than given credit for. He appeared to trouble Ali in their bout.

I saw that one a while back. Why did Al Blue Lewis give Ali fits? Was it his size, his jab, or his activity?

IMO, Ali had trouble vs good jabbers at all stages of his career.

Russell · 02-07-2008, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AREA 53

I think that there3 is little doubt that Mac was indeed a Hard Puncher, but i suspect he was not overly harder hitting then a lot of other heavies from around that period, Alvin Blue Lewis, Jeff Merritt, Jose Luis Garcia Al Jones, Ect Ect, it was probably a case of Mac being better managed as an emerging prospect then the aforementioned, Mac Pre Quarry Test saw him 24-0 - 24ko's but scratch below the surface and you will see a mix of tired old veterans like Folly and Big Cat Williams, or 3rd division trial horses like Roger Rischer, It does not mean that Big Mac could not Punch...He Could, but the ancilliary attributes required to maintain in the top flight just did not seem to be there. But he added some coulourful Ink for awhile.

He was decently managed to a point. Quarry had a history of upsetting hot fighters, especially big punchers.

Not a hugely smart move.

I honestly think he's a bigger puncher than the ones you mentioned. He knocked Liston out cold with a single shot in sparring, and Holmes said he felt he'd beat Tyson at his best.

High praise.

kenmore · 02-07-2008, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mendoza

I saw that one a while back. Why did Al Blue Lewis give Ali fits? Was it his size, his jab, or his activity?

IMO, Ali had trouble vs good jabbers at all stages of his career.

Lewis seemed to be using an odd, "peek a boo" style defense against Ali. Also, Lewis was a big, tall, strong guy with a heavy punch. I think Lewis's combination of style and physical attributes frustrated Ali.

I heard that prior to meeting Ali, Lewis beat up on Oscar Bonavena in Argentina before being declared a DQ loser. Supposedly Bonavena was floored in that fight. I don't know if it's true, but if it is, that's additional evidence that Blue Lewis was pretty tough.

abraq · 02-08-2008, 12:46 AM

I think that Mac Foster was a sparring partner of Ali's at some point. Yes, he was a big and strong fighter. 6'3'' - 215lbs, if I recall correctly, which was big for that era. He was a better puncher than the ones he has been compared with in this thread except for Foreman and Shavers. There was some talk that both Frazier and Foreman avoided him. I don't know if this was true. I think he would have had a chance against Frazier. Not Foreman, though. Foster's downfall was that he depended too much on his punching power and did not acquire the higher skills necessary to succeed at the top rung.

I think he attended Jerry Quarry's funeral, which was a nice gesture.

Alvin "Blue" Lewis was also a big, strong fighter who gave Ali a tough fight. He did well against many others but failed against a few top guys. Unlike Mac Foster, he did not get much publicity and consequently is underrated.

I recall a picture of him carrying Ali around afterr he had lost. Good sportsmanship.

01-04-2008, 10:01 PM	#1
Russell Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12,164 vCash: 75	Mac Foster vs. Ali...? One of the least discussed Ali fights, I think. Boring as hell, I've heard. Did Ali take any monster shots, at all? Further cement his ridiculously good chin, I guess.
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02-06-2008, 05:55 PM	#2
Russell Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12,164 vCash: 75	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? On top of wanting to know about this fight, I'm curious about Foster in general. Has anyone seen any of his fights? Is his reputation as one of the hardest HW hitters of all time a solid one? I've seen him against Quarry, and he fucking whacked Quarry with some monster shots.
Top

02-06-2008, 10:12 PM	#3
Sardu RIP Mr. Bun: 2007-2012 ESB Addict Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 2,007 vCash: 1000	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? This fight was over in Japan. Afterwards Ali claimed Foster gave him more problems than Frazier did. I read that Foster was very slow and did not hit Ali with more than one punch at a time. Ali won going away and there were no knockdowns although Ali rung Foster's bell with some stinging combos in I believe the 9th round. That's all I know.
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02-06-2008, 10:25 PM	#4
Russell Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12,164 vCash: 75	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? Thanks. Know anything else about Foster?
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02-06-2008, 10:45 PM	#5
kenmore Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 5,801 vCash: 103	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? Portions of this fight can be viewed on youtube.com. Foster looks terrible. He is always off balance, and can't hit Ali with anything. He looks clumsy, only throws one punch at a time, and is generally slow. Ali took it easy with Foster. He toyed with him. Many writers believe that Ali could have knocked Foster out if he had made a serious effort to do so. In Foster's defense, it's possible that the Ali fight took place when he was well past his prime. After losing to Quarry, Foster may not have had the motivation and focus necessary to fight his best. Who knows. Foster could hit very hard, no doubt. However I don't think he is regarded as "one of the hardest punchers of all time." He was not a puncher in the same league as Foreman and Shavers. As for the Quarry fight, I saw it and I don't remember Foster landing any really heavy leather on Jerry. Quarry seemed to dodge most of Foster's punches. An important thing to remember about Foster is that he got a very late start in boxing. He was a machine gunner in Vietnam during his early and middle twenties, and he didn't turn pro until after he was discharged from the army. Because of this late start, Foster didn't really get a chance to acquire lots of seasoning as a pro. He didn't really get a chance to seriously learn his craft. I think his managers rushed him. Foster was a lot like Gerry Cooney, as both were big punchers who were rushed into the big time without getting sufficient seasoning first. As a result, both were over-dependent on their punching power.
Top

02-06-2008, 10:56 PM	#6
Russell Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Apr 2007 Posts: 12,164 vCash: 75	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? Both Foreman and Shavers are considered some of the hardest hitters of all time... Thanks for the information, kenmore.
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02-07-2008, 09:48 AM	#8
AREA 53 Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 1,036 vCash: 1000	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? I think that there3 is little doubt that Mac was indeed a Hard Puncher, but i suspect he was not overly harder hitting then a lot of other heavies from around that period, Alvin Blue Lewis, Jeff Merritt, Jose Luis Garcia Al Jones, Ect Ect, it was probably a case of Mac being better managed as an emerging prospect then the aforementioned, Mac Pre Quarry Test saw him 24-0 - 24ko's but scratch below the surface and you will see a mix of tired old veterans like Folly and Big Cat Williams, or 3rd division trial horses like Roger Rischer, It does not mean that Big Mac could not Punch...He Could, but the ancilliary attributes required to maintain in the top flight just did not seem to be there. But he added some coulourful Ink for awhile.
Top

02-07-2008, 02:05 PM	#11
Bokaj Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Jan 2008 Posts: 12,295 vCash: 1000	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? I've seen the last two rounds of this fight. In the last round Foster is groggy and exhausted, but when he gets up from the first knock-down Ali won't finish him off, content to just pity-pat him, probably loathe to cause him any damage. It looks kind of bizarre, actually. Concerning Ali's fight against Al Blue Lewis that's a good one judging from the rounds I've seen. Lewis gets knocked-down in the fifth round, but the ref:s count is very slow so he gets up. If the count had been only ten seconds (I think it's almost 15) Lewis probably wouldn't have made it. After that Ali hurts him several times, but he just won't go down and it almost looks like Ali is gonna punch himself out at one point. He doesn't though and ends it in the 11:th, I think. Lewis is extremely game and takes A LOT of punishment before eventuallt succumbing.
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02-08-2008, 12:46 AM	#15
abraq Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: City - Guwahati, State - Assam, Country - India. Posts: 690 vCash: 1000	Re: Mac Foster vs. Ali...? I think that Mac Foster was a sparring partner of Ali's at some point. Yes, he was a big and strong fighter. 6'3'' - 215lbs, if I recall correctly, which was big for that era. He was a better puncher than the ones he has been compared with in this thread except for Foreman and Shavers. There was some talk that both Frazier and Foreman avoided him. I don't know if this was true. I think he would have had a chance against Frazier. Not Foreman, though. Foster's downfall was that he depended too much on his punching power and did not acquire the higher skills necessary to succeed at the top rung. I think he attended Jerry Quarry's funeral, which was a nice gesture. Alvin "Blue" Lewis was also a big, strong fighter who gave Ali a tough fight. He did well against many others but failed against a few top guys. Unlike Mac Foster, he did not get much publicity and consequently is underrated. I recall a picture of him carrying Ali around afterr he had lost. Good sportsmanship.
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