JMM vs...

[WhataRock]

Whilst the hype of the JMM-Diaz fight is still fresh in the air I wanted to see how you guys think Marquez goes H2H alltime...

Im not even going to name the usual suspects because IMO Juan loses to some of the second tier at 126-130 aswell And before people jump down my throat, thats not having a dig at JMM, these are good fighters Im talking about and Im not even saying he loses to all of them anyway.

@ 126

vs Jose Legra
vs Shozo Saijo
vs Davey Moore
vs Naseem Hamed
vs Johnny Famechon
vs Azumah Nelson

@ 130

vs Brain Mitchell
vs Alfredo Esclara
vs Kuniaki Shibata
vs Acelino Freitis
vs Yong Soo Choi
vs Sam Serrano

NB..some of those guys may not even second tier fighters in your eyes but you get what Im aiming at.

[WhataRock]

Ill pick one from each..

Johnny Famechon @ 126.

I think Johnny would be like poison for JMM..His skills would see him not being there to be countered and I think he would be a stylistic nightmare for Marquez.
That being said I havent seen Famechon in there with enough top fighters, I mean I havent actually seen him on film against some of the top fighters he has faced, to be sure he beat Marquez..I just know he gives him hell.
Toss up for me..Id say it would end in a SD for either guy or a draw.

Freitis @ 130.

Acelino was an excellent athletic speciman. Power, speed and explosivness. I think he showed against a prime Casa he wasnt just a flash in the pan Ko artist, though I feel he only just got by in that fight.
Marquez eeks through an early onslaught where he might get dropped, to counter punch his way to a clear but hard fought decision. Probably rocking the tiring Popo a few times as the fight wears on.

[GPater11093]

i think he beats Naz much like Barrera done it

[WhataRock]

I reckon he does aswell.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Whilst the hype of the JMM-Diaz fight is still fresh in the air I wanted to see how you guys think Marquez goes H2H alltime...

Im not even going to name the usual suspects because IMO Juan loses to some of the second tier at 126-130 aswell And before people jump down my throat, thats not having a dig at JMM, these are good fighters Im talking about and Im not even saying he loses to all of them anyway.

@ 126

vs Jose Legra
vs Shozo Saijo
vs Davey Moore
vs Naseem Hamed
vs Johnny Famechon
vs Azumah Nelson

@ 130

vs Brain Mitchell
vs Alfredo Esclara
vs Kuniaki Shibata
vs Acelino Freitis
vs Yong Soo Choi
vs Sam Serrano

NB..some of those guys may not even second tier fighters in your eyes but you get what Im aiming at.

A fight with Jose Legra would be interesting. Legra had long arms and a great reach advantage, but he didn't have much by way of inside fighting ability and body punching. If Marquez tries to counterpunch his way through him, I see him dropping a decision. If he can get on the inside and apply pressure, then he could win. It would be interesting to see how he would go about it.

I think Azumah Nelson would bully him and possibly stop him if he's in top form. Too strong physically and his speed of punch will bother Marquez.

A fight with Brian Mitchell would be close and entertaining. Mitchell is quite a basic fighter, but I don't think Marquez is any more special than Brian. Marquez has shown a bigger heart, but I'm not sure Brian wouldn't go towards matching him there if he had to. Can see this one going either way.

[WhataRock]

How you reckon a fight against Saijo goes sweet?

Havent seen much of him. Ive been told he could upset someone like Marquez but from what Ive seen I dont really see it.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

How you reckon a fight against Saijo goes sweet?

Havent seen much of him. Ive been told he could upset someone like Marquez but from what Ive seen I dont really see it.

Haven't seen too much of him myself Rock. I'm awaiting his second fight with Rojas which should be coming in any day now, and I'll have a go at a breakdown once I've seen that.

[WhataRock]

Got that fight yet sweet?

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Got that fight yet sweet?

Not yet mate. I'll watch it as soon as it comes in, and report here soon after.

[WhataRock]

Cheers...go with christ bra.

[Flea Man]

JMM very easy to draw into a fight....at 126 his chin was vulnerable (but his recuperative powers great) so I'm not certain how a Naz fight goes.

At LW I'd put him in against most of the fringe greats such as Mancini and Philip Holiday. He'd beat these guys but lose against the top guys such as Ortiz and Duran. Also, Mosley at LW would probably beat him (alhtough JMM would've been the best guy he fought there, I personally think Shane was beter as a Welter)

Only my opinion though.

[sweet_scientist]

I think Mancini would outmuscle him and outmaul him. Marquez will land some flush shots like Duek Koo Kim did, but like Duek, he won't have the power to discourage Ray.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by sweet_scientist

Not yet mate. I'll watch it as soon as it comes in, and report here soon after.

I just watched the second Saijo-Rojas fight. I think with the kind of form he was in that night, Saijo would give Marquez all he could handle.

He has great punching skills, a good jab and left hook, a good straight right hand, and he can explode when he has his man hurt, despite looking quite lanky.

Also has good movement and body rhythm (kinda like Jiro Watanabe), can bounce around for 15 rounds quite comfortably.

Like most tall, lanky blokes he does have a tendency to get hit, and whilst he will hit Marquez with plenty of shots, I think he will receive just as many in return, mostly with the left hook (does drop his right hand a little from time to time after echanges).

Big question for me is how he takes punishment and returns fire after getting hit consistently. Rojas really struggled with his reach disadvantage and wasn't able to put Saijo under consistent pressure. Marquez will. I'd like to watch a bit more of Saijo to see how he responds after taking a beating. I might nab his fights with Kobayashi and Stevens to see if I can get some clues as to that. I've seen his last fight against Gomez, but he seemed a different man there to the one that faced Rojas.

[WhataRock]

Cheers heaps for that sweet...thats really appreciated.
His fight with Kobayashi is on the Tube..he shows glimpses of very good technical ability and smooth movement as you said but at times he appeared a tad overwhelmed by the strength and workrate of Hiroshi...The fight is actually later in his career, though I think he was still in his mid 20's at that stage...It was at Kobayashi's best weight too.
I have watched that fight a few times, not so much recently..I never actually scored it but felt like Saijo outlanded Hiroshi, maybe not enough to pull ahead but seemed to me to be the more skilled operator.

[sweet_scientist]

Originally Posted by WhataRock

Cheers heaps for that sweet...thats really appreciated.
His fight with Kobayashi is on the Tube..he shows glimpses of very good technical ability and smooth movement as you said but at times he appeared a tad overwhelmed by the strength and workrate of Hiroshi...The fight is actually later in his career, though I think he was still in his mid 20's at that stage...It was at Kobayashi's best weight too.
I have watched that fight a few times, not so much recently..I never actually scored it but felt like Saijo outlanded Hiroshi, maybe not enough to pull ahead but seemed to me to be the more skilled operator.

Cheers Rock. I'll check the Kobayashi fight out on the Tube. I've been told that his fight against Rojas was pretty much his signature performance, so maybe I'm taking him at his absolute best and he had some more underwhelming performances throughout his career.

I'm sure RB and Mantequilla have seen an adequate amount of his body of work to give a more realistic perspective here.

I'll see if I can get a few more of his fights and find out what his true level was. Hard to do with only a fight or two.

We'd think Camacho was superman if all we had seen was the Ramirez and Limon fights. So sometimes it pays to see more.