Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?..

Theron · 01-16-2013, 07:16 PM

Say Ali came along a little later, im interested in how Liston would be ranked because the Ali fights seem to have mostly wrecked his legacy, so how do you rank him if say Ali came along right after he retired or say if he retired after the Patterson fights ?

TheSouthpaw · 01-16-2013, 07:47 PM

If he retired after the Patterson fights hed be ranked as an ATG no doubt...takin a dive in the second Ali fight didnt help though....Thats what people remember.

Theron · 01-16-2013, 08:09 PM

Delete

BUDW · 01-16-2013, 08:39 PM

Dive x 2

IntentionalButt · 01-16-2013, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

If he retired after the Patterson fights hed be ranked as an ATG no doubt...takin a dive in the second Ali fight didnt help though....Thats what people remember.

They remember wrong.

TheSouthpaw · 01-16-2013, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntentionalButt

They remember wrong.

How so!?....Its not like it is make believe!...it really happened my man!..

Boxed Ears · 01-16-2013, 09:16 PM

I'd rank him about the same, I think. 11-15 slot still.

(Yes, that's my honest, straightforward Liston answer, this time)

Bummy Davis · 01-16-2013, 09:49 PM

his big wins were over Patterson, Cleveland Williams over rated so while this was a good win I do not see Williams doing anything on a permanent basis in the division. His fights against Ali hurt him but without the Ali fights you could say he dominated a weak division until he got the title, he looked great on the attack but Foley was KO'd by 188lb Doug Jones and others and Machen went the full route....You could put him in the top 10 but he failed when tested, Tyson had a better level of opposition but failed vs Evander and Buster...I don't think the Patterson wins put Sonny up there.

Asterion · 01-16-2013, 10:27 PM

He's at the bottom of the Top10 anyway.

Unforgiven · 01-17-2013, 02:14 AM

I wouldn't rate him any higher.
He's probably in the top 20 heavyweights of all time.

ETM · 01-17-2013, 02:27 AM

Its interesting that some may say Liston cleaned out a weak division but Ali fought many of the same fighters during his intial reign as Champion and that is the Ali many point to as the greatest heavyweight of alltime. Based on what he did against those guys.

Liston beat better version of Patterson, Folley and Williams and he did it in more devastating fashion. Henry Cooper wouldnt even fight Liston. The man was terrifying.

bodhi · 01-17-2013, 02:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw

If he retired after the Patterson fights hed be ranked as an ATG no doubt...takin a dive in the second Ali fight didnt help though....Thats what people remember.

He's still ranked as an ATG. Losing like that did hurt him but not that much. Thing is his resume is quite thin and that would always hurt him. Even with out the losses he shouldn't show up in a Top10 IMO.

Theron · 01-17-2013, 02:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ETM

Its interesting that some may say Liston cleaned out a weak division but Ali fought many of the same fighters during his intial reign as Champion and that is the Ali many point to as the greatest heavyweight of alltime. Based on what he did against those guys.

Liston beat better version of Patterson, Folley and Williams and he did it in more devastating fashion. Henry Cooper wouldnt even fight Liston. The man was terrifying.

dyna · 01-17-2013, 02:55 AM

Funfact:Liston never beat an opponent that wasn't knocked out before or was a non-bum. (Where I define bum as someone who has a lower than 75% win ratio after 12 fights)

Not really his fault though, it's just a fun fact.

01-16-2013, 07:16 PM	#1
Theron Steele the Tacoma Assasin ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 3,454 vCash: 773	Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. Say Ali came along a little later, im interested in how Liston would be ranked because the Ali fights seem to have mostly wrecked his legacy, so how do you rank him if say Ali came along right after he retired or say if he retired after the Patterson fights ?
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01-16-2013, 07:47 PM	#2
TheSouthpaw Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jul 2012 Location: St. Louis Posts: 2,874 vCash: 500	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. If he retired after the Patterson fights hed be ranked as an ATG no doubt...takin a dive in the second Ali fight didnt help though....Thats what people remember.
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01-16-2013, 08:09 PM	#3
Theron Steele the Tacoma Assasin ESB Addict Join Date: Sep 2012 Posts: 3,454 vCash: 773	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. Delete
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01-16-2013, 08:39 PM	#4
BUDW Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Nov 2007 Posts: 1,625 vCash: 1000	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. Dive x 2
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01-16-2013, 09:16 PM	#7
Boxed Ears Lowering Post Count East Side VIP Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brunoilia, Hehsland Posts: 51,296 vCash: 7500	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. I'd rank him about the same, I think. 11-15 slot still. (Yes, that's my honest, straightforward Liston answer, this time)
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01-16-2013, 09:49 PM	#8
Bummy Davis Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: New York Posts: 8,193 vCash: 1000	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. his big wins were over Patterson, Cleveland Williams over rated so while this was a good win I do not see Williams doing anything on a permanent basis in the division. His fights against Ali hurt him but without the Ali fights you could say he dominated a weak division until he got the title, he looked great on the attack but Foley was KO'd by 188lb Doug Jones and others and Machen went the full route....You could put him in the top 10 but he failed when tested, Tyson had a better level of opposition but failed vs Evander and Buster...I don't think the Patterson wins put Sonny up there.
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01-16-2013, 10:27 PM	#9
Asterion Champion East Side Guru Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 7,802 vCash: 75	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. He's at the bottom of the Top10 anyway.
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01-17-2013, 02:14 AM	#10
Unforgiven Undisputed Champion East Side VIP Join Date: Nov 2005 Posts: 13,142 vCash: 1000	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. I wouldn't rate him any higher. He's probably in the top 20 heavyweights of all time.
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01-17-2013, 02:27 AM	#11
ETM Contender ESB Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Posts: 1,040 vCash: 500	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. Its interesting that some may say Liston cleaned out a weak division but Ali fought many of the same fighters during his intial reign as Champion and that is the Ali many point to as the greatest heavyweight of alltime. Based on what he did against those guys. Liston beat better version of Patterson, Folley and Williams and he did it in more devastating fashion. Henry Cooper wouldnt even fight Liston. The man was terrifying.
Top

01-17-2013, 02:55 AM	#14
dyna Belt holder ESB Addict Join Date: Jun 2012 Posts: 4,585 vCash: 1551	Re: Liston's Ranking Without Ali fights ?.. Funfact:Liston never beat an opponent that wasn't knocked out before or was a non-bum. (Where I define bum as someone who has a lower than 75% win ratio after 12 fights) Not really his fault though, it's just a fun fact.
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