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Old 01-20-2013, 02:59 AM   #16
MadcapMaxie
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Robinson had Moore and his wife round to dinner to try and broker a match, but Archie vetoed it because he said Ray wanted all the money.
Also fairly certain tho that Robinson said openly he had absolutley no plans to fight Moore, he knew his limits and wanted no part of him.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:51 PM   #17
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

He didn't belong at 175 in the first place. Reason he chose light hitting Maxim and not Moore. Dont get me wrong I like Robbie as a fighter and feel he's greater but dont think he wouldve handled Moore. Maybe the heat exhaustion was a good thing in some bizarre way.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:13 PM   #18
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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...and it wasn't joey maxium that made SRR lose, why wasn't a rematch ever made? Better yet a match of SRR vs the next lt heavy champ Archie Moore?
SRR wasn't shot in 1952 and he came back and in the next 6 years won 3 more world titles. Archie Moore had the Lt heavy title 5 or 6 of those years, so why no second try at Lt heavy for the sugarman during that period?
had to be a little of his opponent that he lost. A guy does not collapse just standing in the ring doing nothing even if it is later in the fight..
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:54 AM   #19
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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had to be a little of his opponent that he lost. A guy does not collapse just standing in the ring doing nothing even if it is later in the fight..
Robinson made Maxim ,a good boxer, look like a statue.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:25 AM   #20
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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had to be a little of his opponent that he lost. A guy does not collapse just standing in the ring doing nothing even if it is later in the fight..
Agree with this.When I watched on film,even though Robinson was clearly a long way in front,it looked as though Maxim was catching him later on,unless I was "seeing things".I think Maxim was one of a very few at the weight to KO Freddie Mills,so maybe hit a bit harder than is generally thought.
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:27 AM   #21
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Agree with this.When I watched on film,even though Robinson was clearly a long way in front,it looked as though Maxim was catching him later on,unless I was "seeing things".I think Maxim was one of a very few at the weight to KO Freddie Mills,so maybe hit a bit harder than is generally thought.
Maxim was so far behind on all cards , he could not win except by stoppage.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:00 PM   #22
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

Perhaps maxim threw less because he was pacing himself.

There should be no automatic assumption that robbo wins without the heatwave.

He had a chance to take a rematch and chose not to.
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:56 PM   #23
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

I never understand the "It was the heat ! Maxim did nothing !" stuff.

We all agree that Ray Robinson was the guy reeling around, falling over, and quitting (or being withdrawn) in his corner.
And Maxim was the last man standing.

Apparently Joey Maxim not only stood up under 13 rounds of Ray Robinson barrages, he stood up to heat that was knocking two guys over who weren't take any punches.

Y'know, in boxing, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WIN ON 'TOUGHNESS'.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:23 PM   #24
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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I never understand the "It was the heat ! Maxim did nothing !" stuff.

We all agree that Ray Robinson was the guy reeling around, falling over, and quitting (or being withdrawn) in his corner.
And Maxim was the last man standing.

Apparently Joey Maxim not only stood up under 13 rounds of Ray Robinson barrages, he stood up to heat that was knocking two guys over who weren't take any punches.

Y'know, in boxing, YOU ARE ALLOWED TO WIN ON 'TOUGHNESS'.
I think its easy to understand , Maxim did not get more than 3 rounds on any score card, self evident really.


Question, given the published score cards, could Maxim have won by decision?

Question , given that Maxim was not a ko puncher , and never had Robinson in trouble with his punches , in your opinion was he intentionally pacing himself to lose on points or, stop Robinson late?

Question, did you see any particular punch that had Robinson in trouble at any stage ?
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:30 PM   #25
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Perhaps maxim threw less because he was pacing himself.

There should be no automatic assumption that robbo wins without the heatwave.

He had a chance to take a rematch and chose not to.
Pacing himself to lose on points?

There should definitely be no assumption that Maxim stops Robinson without a heat wave, he never once had him in trouble in the fight.
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Old 01-21-2013, 01:56 PM   #26
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Pacing himself to lose on points?

There should definitely be no assumption that Maxim stops Robinson without a heat wave, he never once had him in trouble in the fight.
Pacing himself for a strong finish perhaps? He certainly paced himself better than Robinson did.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:19 PM   #27
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

Different types of pressure, it doesn't always have to be barnstorming. Admittedly he was leaving it late if he was trying to drag him in to deep water.
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Old 01-21-2013, 02:56 PM   #28
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

When you see that fight obviously especially the end,Robinson is wobbling all over the place,and it certainly isn't from any punches Maxim was hitting him with.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:34 PM   #29
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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I think its easy to understand , Maxim did not get more than 3 rounds on any score card, self evident really.


Question, given the published score cards, could Maxim have won by decision?

Question , given that Maxim was not a ko puncher , and never had Robinson in trouble with his punches , in your opinion was he intentionally pacing himself to lose on points or, stop Robinson late?

Question, did you see any particular punch that had Robinson in trouble at any stage ?
Your questions seem pointless, but I'll go along.

1. Maxim couldn't have won by decision.

2. I have no special opinion or insights on Maxim's 'intentions', other than the fact that he was in there to win the fight and defend his title. I have no reason to believe he was trying to lose, he had plenty of opportunity to quit.

3. Every punch of the fight - those that landed, those that missed, in both directions - seem to have landed Robinson in trouble, we all tend to agree on that.


I say your questions are pointless, because you seem to miss the point. Maxim won, fair and square. He outlasted Robinson. He was there to defend his title to the final bell. Robinson couldn't go the distance. Maxim out-toughed him.
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Old 01-21-2013, 03:42 PM   #30
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Pacing himself for a strong finish perhaps? He certainly paced himself better than Robinson did.
If he took the 14th and 15th rounds in that "strong finish" , he loses on points .Please show me the logic in this because I fail to see it.
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