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Old 01-21-2013, 04:44 PM   #31
Unforgiven
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by ron u.k. View Post
When you see that fight obviously especially the end,Robinson is wobbling all over the place,and it certainly isn't from any punches Maxim was hitting him with.
It was 100% to do with being in a prizefight with a fit and determined Joey Maxim though.

It's bizarre how this fight is the only instance where a guy "gassing" or "punching himself out" in 13 rounds is treated like he didn't really get beat. The other guy outlasted him, as is often the case, but for some reason it doesn't count because "the other guy didn't hit him much" or whatever.
Lots of fights go that way.
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Old 01-21-2013, 04:59 PM   #32
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Your questions seem pointless, but I'll go along.

1. Maxim couldn't have won by decision.

2. I have no special opinion or insights on Maxim's 'intentions', other than the fact that he was in there to win the fight and defend his title. I have no reason to believe he was trying to lose, he had plenty of opportunity to quit.

3. Every punch of the fight - those that landed, those that missed, in both directions - seem to have landed Robinson in trouble, we all tend to agree on that.

I say your questions are pointless, because you seem to miss the point. Maxim won, fair and square. He outlasted Robinson. He was there to defend his title to the final bell. Robinson couldn't go the distance. Maxim out-toughed him.
Who has suggested that Maxim did not win fair and square? The bone of contention is your premise that Maxim may have won without the heat wave.

EVERY REPORTER WHO WAS RINGSIDE STATED THAT NOT ONLY WAS RAY SKATING THE FIGHT BUT THAT WITHOUT THE EXTREME TEMPERATURE ROBINSON WOULD HAVE BECOME A TRIPLE CHAMP.

I have the Ring Magazine report of the fight and it emphatically endorses this opinion.
Pointless?Tto be honest I think your input on this subject is pointless, it isnt even playing devil's advocate it is bloody minded revisionism carried to absurdity.

Last edited by mcvey; 01-21-2013 at 05:13 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:02 PM   #33
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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If he took the 14th and 15th rounds in that "strong finish" , he loses on points .Please show me the logic in this because I fail to see it.
It doesn't matter what you see to be honest.

Noone is saying maxim fought the perfect game plan. He did however fight a realistic gameplan given the circumstances, Robinson on the other hand was not.

Maybe Maxim wanted to knock him out late, maybe he thought it was closer than it was, fuk knows. But it doesn't matter. He was the only man left standing.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:06 PM   #34
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
It was 100% to do with being in a prizefight with a fit and determined Joey Maxim though.

It's bizarre how this fight is the only instance where a guy "gassing" or "punching himself out" in 13 rounds is treated like he didn't really get beat. The other guy outlasted him, as is often the case, but for some reason it doesn't count because "the other guy didn't hit him much" or whatever.
Lots of fights go that way.
Would you like to provide a couple of examples of a 157lbs 31 years old former welterweight , outboxing ,and outpunching a reigning light heavyweight champion for 13 rds , amassing such an insurmountable lead that he only had to finish on his feet to win, but then collapsing from heat prostration, please show us similar circumstances ,and results?
After weighing in Maxim went for a meal he is believed to have weighed around 178lbs when he entered the ring.

Robinson took 4 of the first 5 rds .In the 7th he had Maxim hurt and covering up.

"That heat sure affects you strangely .When Robinson was down I wanted to step on his face-anything so he'd just stay down.I never felt like that before ,and I said "What's wrong with me-am I crazy?" I had sunstroke twice, and I woulda went if he hadn't" Maxim, post fight interview.

Robinson lost 11lbs in weight during the contest.

Last edited by mcvey; 01-21-2013 at 05:23 PM.
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Old 01-21-2013, 05:47 PM   #35
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by mcvey View Post
Would you like to provide a couple of examples of a 157lbs 31 years old former welterweight , outboxing ,and outpunching a reigning light heavyweight champion for 13 rds , amassing such an insurmountable lead that he only had to finish on his feet to win, but then collapsing from heat prostration, please show us similar circumstances ,and results?
Obviously I'm not talking about the specifics.
I mean I've seen many fighters run around and pile up points for 11 or 12 rounds and then suddenly wilt.

Quote:
After weighing in Maxim went for a meal he is believed to have weighed around 178lbs when he entered the ring.
Ok, that's the second time you've refered to weight/size in this post.
So, do you think the fact that Maxim was so much bigger and stronger a real factor ?
I do.

Quote:
Robinson took 4 of the first 5 rds .In the 7th he had Maxim hurt and covering up.
Yeah, and I'm sure if Maxim wasn't as good and as durable as he was, he would have been KO'd. I believe Robinson could have KO'd loads of decent 175 pounders that night, in the heat.

Quote:
"That heat sure affects you strangely .When Robinson was down I wanted to step on his face-anything so he'd just stay down.I never felt like that before ,and I said "What's wrong with me-am I crazy?" I had sunstroke twice, and I woulda went if he hadn't" Maxim, post fight interview.
Yes, that confirms how Maxim out-toughed him. "I woulda went if he hadn't"

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Robinson lost 11lbs in weight during the contest.
How much did Maxim lose ?
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:01 PM   #36
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
Obviously I'm not talking about the specifics.
I mean I've seen many fighters run around and pile up points for 11 or 12 rounds and then suddenly wilt.



Ok, that's the second time you've refered to weight/size in this post.
So, do you think the fact that Maxim was so much bigger and stronger a real factor ?
I do.



Yeah, and I'm sure if Maxim wasn't as good and as durable as he was, he would have been KO'd. I believe Robinson could have KO'd loads of decent 175 pounders that night, in the heat.



Yes, that confirms how Maxim out-toughed him. "I woulda went if he hadn't"



How much did Maxim lose ?
How many fighters who were conceding the weight Robinson was and were that far in front? You said lots of fights go that way, fights fought with the same weight discrepancy? Just one example will do.
Maxim lost 9lbs in weight. I think the factor that decided this fight was the temperature a big welterweight was comprehensively outboxing a natural lightheavyweight until the heat got to him . No argument Maxim,whom I am a fan of, won on the level. My argument is he would not have if the fight had taken place on a different date.
Ironically the fight ,fought in the outdoors, was postponed two days because of rain.
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:30 PM   #37
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
It was 100% to do with being in a prizefight with a fit and determined Joey Maxim though.

It's bizarre how this fight is the only instance where a guy "gassing" or "punching himself out" in 13 rounds is treated like he didn't really get beat. The other guy outlasted him, as is often the case, but for some reason it doesn't count because "the other guy didn't hit him much" or whatever.
Lots of fights go that way.
Actually I agree 100 per cent it was a legitimate and deserved win for Maxim he was the last man standing, you can't argue. All I was stating though was that the main reason for Robinson's demise wasn't from the effect of Maxim's punches
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:31 PM   #38
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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How many fighters who were conceding the weight Robinson was and were that far in front? You said lots of fights go that way, fights fought with the same weight discrepancy? Just one example will do.
What's the weight discrepancy got to do with it ?
You seem to acknowledge the weight as a major factor.

Quote:
Maxim lost 9lbs in weight. I think the factor that decided this fight was the temperature a big welterweight was comprehensively outboxing a natural lightheavyweight until the heat got to him . No argument Maxim,whom I am a fan of, won on the level. My argument is he would not have if the fight had taken place on a different date.
Ironically the fight ,fought in the outdoors, was postponed two days because of rain.
I think the size and strength of Maxim was the biggest factor. Skill and experience to some extent.
Robinson could have probably KO'd almost every welterweight and most middleweights in the world that night, long before the 13th round. In the exact same heat. Most light-heavies too, he KOs them.
With Maxim, he couldn't KO him, and was forced to run himself into the ground.

I mean, it was obviously hot and humid so why didn't Robinson just conserve his energy in the heat, fight a slower pace and fight flat-footed ?
Because he knew Maxim would beat him that way too.

It's fair to speculate, if you wish, on Robinson beating Maxim in more moderate temperatures.
But I'd counter that by saying imagine all the guys who Robinson would beat in the very same hot and humid conditions ! Loads. Good fighters too. GREAT ones, his own size.
I think when people realize this, they should realize how WRONG it is to say "Maxim did nothing, it was just the heat."
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Old 01-21-2013, 06:54 PM   #39
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

Yeah I don't like the assumption robbo wins on any other day. he had his chance on that day and he came up short.
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:34 PM   #40
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

It was about 75% heat and 25% maxim that caused Ray to lose his one and only stoppage. Don't get me wrong,..maxim didn't score any hurtful shots on SRR,..but he fought a very conservative fight offensivelyand did as little as possible, causing the great sugar man to work all the harder IMO. Maxim did use his strength and physical presence to a degree, but he mainly just went with the flow that night, and to his credit, managed to survive.
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Old 01-21-2013, 08:43 PM   #41
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

Sugar had proved everything there was to prove, and was courted by show biz promoters that offered him a fortune to tour in a glitzy review, with gorgeous girls, built around him. And they could book him into the finest night clubs 'round the world.

So Sugar's choice didn't seem a hard: Making top dollar, luscious ladies 'n adoration without getting hit in head anymore.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:56 AM   #42
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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It was about 75% heat and 25% maxim that caused Ray to lose his one and only stoppage. Don't get me wrong,..maxim didn't score any hurtful shots on SRR,..but he fought a very conservative fight offensivelyand did as little as possible, causing the great sugar man to work all the harder IMO.
How does doing 'as little a possible' cause an opponent to 'work all the harder' ?
That doesn't make sense.

Quote:
Maxim did use his strength and physical presence to a degree, but he mainly just went with the flow that night, and to his credit, managed to survive.
Well, it seems to me that his 'strength and physical presence' was the main reason Robinson was running himself into exhaustion and forced to work hard beyond his capacity.

It certainly makes more sense that Maxim's "doing nothing" made Robinson work too hard.
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Old 01-22-2013, 05:47 AM   #43
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
How does doing 'as little a possible' cause an opponent to 'work all the harder' ?
That doesn't make sense.



Well, it seems to me that his 'strength and physical presence' was the main reason Robinson was running himself into exhaustion and forced to work hard beyond his capacity.

It certainly makes more sense that Maxim's "doing nothing" made Robinson work too hard.
I'm going to pass future comment on this thread.
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Old 01-22-2013, 07:00 AM   #44
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

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Originally Posted by Unforgiven View Post
How does doing 'as little a possible' cause an opponent to 'work all the harder' ?
That doesn't make sense.



Well, it seems to me that his 'strength and physical presence' was the main reason Robinson was running himself into exhaustion and forced to work hard beyond his capacity.

It certainly makes more sense that Maxim's "doing nothing" made Robinson work too hard.
Simple..he made Robinson do all the leading..all the attacking. When a man is on the defensive all the time, the other guy has to make the fight. SRR made the fight!! If Maxim had any kind of consistant offense, he would have given Robby a kind of break in avoiding Maxim's artillery. Robinson expended more energy by constantly being on the attack...and by his very style..his way of moving, he just wore himself out. Why don't you read some famous accounts of this fight and you'll find some pretty respected writers making thias same point.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:10 PM   #45
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Default Re: since it was the heat that made SRR lose

Sometimes boxing is a marathon.

SRR couldn't hack the distance. Maxim was the worthy winner.
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