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Old 01-17-2013, 10:59 PM   #76
TheSouthpaw
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Obviously round 3 may be the most controversial round.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:01 PM   #77
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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What thoughts of yours were different than mine regarding round 3?
I think I'm giving him more credit for control on his shot selection and placement than you are. Hagler still looks cold, he's still reacting to SRL's moves and punches in there.

Hagler lands some good shots, and that's what makes it competitive. Also, his weight is clearly a factor, as Leonard starts getting moved. But Ray is feinting, he's launching lead rights that have Marvin reacting, and he's landing sharp, sporatic shots.

In the end, I think your assessment is competent and totally fair, I just see Leonard as the general and the defender in there, and I tend to give points for that, ESPECIALLY when the damage isn't apparent at all, and it's difficult to truly separate just who is in fact landing the harder shots.

It's totally tit for tat, though.
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Old 01-17-2013, 11:36 PM   #78
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I think I'm giving him more credit for control on his shot selection and placement than you are. Hagler still looks cold, he's still reacting to SRL's moves and punches in there.

Hagler lands some good shots, and that's what makes it competitive. Also, his weight is clearly a factor, as Leonard starts getting moved. But Ray is feinting, he's launching lead rights that have Marvin reacting, and he's landing sharp, sporatic shots.

In the end, I think your assessment is competent and totally fair, I just see Leonard as the general and the defender in there, and I tend to give points for that, ESPECIALLY when the damage isn't apparent at all, and it's difficult to truly separate just who is in fact landing the harder shots.

It's totally tit for tat, though.
General and defender..I like that!..Id give points for that too!
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:02 AM   #79
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Originally Posted by MagnaNasakki View Post
I think I'm giving him more credit for control on his shot selection and placement than you are. Hagler still looks cold, he's still reacting to SRL's moves and punches in there.

Hagler lands some good shots, and that's what makes it competitive. Also, his weight is clearly a factor, as Leonard starts getting moved. But Ray is feinting, he's launching lead rights that have Marvin reacting, and he's landing sharp, sporatic shots.

In the end, I think your assessment is competent and totally fair, I just see Leonard as the general and the defender in there, and I tend to give points for that, ESPECIALLY when the damage isn't apparent at all, and it's difficult to truly separate just who is in fact landing the harder shots.

It's totally tit for tat, though.
I normally do give more points for that, but I can't bring myself to do it given that nearly all of Leonard's little traps that he set were easily blocked or slipped compared to Hagler's overall doing more than Leonard did in that round.

A similar case with me is Dawson-Hopkins II. Hopkins showed he was the superior ring technician, however he did not do enough actual fighting to win the majority of the rounds for me. Sure, he landed the harder, cleaner shots (not the case in the Leonard-Hagler fight, imo), but they were too far and few between.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:10 AM   #80
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Hagler wasn't robbed. SRL deserved the nod.

Had it been a 15-rounder, Hagler could well have stopped Leonard.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:16 AM   #81
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Aye Magna's still here...

As for the fight if I remember correctly I actually scored it a draw the last time I saw it.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:23 AM   #82
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Hagler wasn't robbed. SRL deserved the nod.

Had it been a 15-rounder, Hagler could well have stopped Leonard.
I doubt it...The longer the fight could have been could have been bad for Haglar not Leonard.
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Old 01-18-2013, 12:33 AM   #83
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I doubt it...The longer the fight could have been could have been bad for Haglar not Leonard.
What did you see, TS? Ray looked like he was tiring badly in the last round, 'n being punished relentlessly in the corner.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:08 AM   #84
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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What did you see, TS? Ray looked like he was tiring badly in the last round, 'n being punished relentlessly in the corner.
Haglar looked pretty tired too and was probably gonna punch himself out for the later rounds (13, 14. and 15 )..If anyone was gonna get a second wind here id have to give to Leonard.
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Old 01-18-2013, 02:16 AM   #85
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Ive seen this fight I dont know how many times and for the life of me I just dont see Haglar being robbed of anything. I thought it was genius on Leonards part to wait till there was 30 seconds left to steal each round, and had Haglar been a little more busy and patient and fought his own fight instead of falling right into Rays trickery...It might have been a different outcome.
I scored the fight narrowly for Hagler. Nothing remotely close to a robbery.


At least one of the judges was out to lunch when he awarded SRL a wide UD.

There was not more than a point between them. Hagler landed the better shots, Leonard more pithy shoe-shine types.



If Leonard did any stealing, it was in the lead-up to the fight with the conditions he imposed, especially the 12 round bit.

Hagler has a good case that he may have edged the bout, but no case for a 'robbery.'
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:54 AM   #86
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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I scored the fight narrowly for Hagler. Nothing remotely close to a robbery.


At least one of the judges was out to lunch when he awarded SRL a wide UD.

There was not more than a point between them. Hagler landed the better shots, Leonard more pithy shoe-shine types.



If Leonard did any stealing, it was in the lead-up to the fight with the conditions he imposed, especially the 12 round bit.

Hagler has a good case that he may have edged the bout, but no case for a 'robbery.'
I also scored it for Hagler, and am in total agreement with what you said.
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Old 01-18-2013, 04:56 AM   #87
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Nowhere close to a robbery.

I had Leonard winning it 7-5 and the first time I watched it I had it a draw.

This is the greatest comeback in boxing history. Cementing Leonards status as one of the greatest to ever lace them up.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:00 AM   #88
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

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Originally Posted by TheSouthpaw View Post
Ive seen this fight I dont know how many times and for the life of me I just dont see Haglar being robbed of anything. I thought it was genius on Leonards part to wait till there was 30 seconds left to steal each round, and had Haglar been a little more busy and patient and fought his own fight instead of falling right into Rays trickery...It might have been a different outcome.
I gave it to SRL, and any fight that close can't be a robbery either way.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:23 AM   #89
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

I had Hagler winning 115-113

I feel Hagler was robbed by the fact that one of the judges was clearly crooked with his 118-110 score. That seems like pre-meditated attempted robbery to me.

But even if the scoring had gone Hagler's way, I feel Leonard would have accomplished more narrowly losing than Hagler did narrowly win.
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Old 01-18-2013, 05:27 AM   #90
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Default Re: Just how bad was Haglar robbed if at all against SRL?

Hagler won on my card, but it was very close. Not a robbery.
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