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Old 03-03-2013, 01:07 AM   #166
vargasfan1985
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

Let the 2-3 idiots who think Joe is not an ATG. They are the 1% who think that. Let them have their stupid, mindless opinion.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:31 AM   #167
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

Frazier was like Hasim Rahman. Got 1 win over the legend, caught him on bad day, then clearly lost to him, won some against some good but not great opponents and lost to the best.
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:31 AM   #168
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

This thread is utter bullshit. Frazier beat an prime ALi....
That says it all....
You cant be called overrated after such an achievement...
Simple as that!
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Old 03-03-2013, 01:56 AM   #169
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by cyrax99 View Post
I'm sure I'll catch alot of shit talking about a beloved fighter like Frazier, but the truth is that he is quite possibly the most overrated heavyweight of all time. I hear people mention him as a top 5, top 10, top 20 heavyweight, when he simply isn't. If you're bound and determined to believe he is great, just like a religious person, no facts will change your mind. But if you choose to be open minded, I simply do not see ANY argument for him being an ATG heavyweight, period.

First off, lets start with his record 32-4-1. He has 37 fights total, not very many to begin with. Ask yourself, what great all time heavyweights has he fought? Ali and Foreman are the only two answers.

Ali was a COMPLETELY different fighter after being exiled for three years, he completely lost his legs. This was a technically flawed fighter, but one who was tremendous due to physical gifts. He was a shadow of his former self after returning, any only won big fights afterwards due to outsmarting guys like Foreman. Still, despite this being a much worse Ali, Frazier loses 2 out of the 3 fights. Ali would have absolutely destroyed him pre exile.

Foreman absolutely obliterated Joe Frazier twice. It wasn't even close.

Joe Frazier's record against ATGs: 1-4

His one win being one he'd of never had if he fought Ali pre-exile.

Joe's other best wins are against guys like Jerry Quarry, and Jimmy Ellis, whom absolutely nobody considers ATG heavyweights. He hardly pulled out a decision to Bonavena who knocked him down twice, and nearly beat him. He has quite easily the weakest resume of any person considered an ATG, it's ridiculous. Seriously, had he not fought a watered down Ali with diminished physical gifts, would anyone even be talking about him as a great? ABSOLUTELY NOT. The man is 1-4 against ATGs...
Cunt.
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:10 AM   #170
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

I would like to see your top 10 list, if you haven't posted it already, TS?

I don't put much stock into you giving me a top 20 where you can omit Frazier.

You'd have to leave about 9 spots blank at the very least
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Old 03-03-2013, 02:50 AM   #171
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

George Foreman was 0-2 against ATGs.

He lost to both Ali and Holyfield.

(after two months, I decided to answer my own question)
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:04 AM   #172
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

Joe Frazier won Olympic Gold,beat Jimmy Ellis by KO twice,won the biggest fight of all time in boxing (Ali fight)

Frazier is not overrated. He was known for being a rough and tough all action fighter with a mean left hook. And he was the first man to beat Ali! His 3 fights with Ali are better than most guys entire career. Frazier's wins over Jimmy Ellis,Chuvalo were very good. Frazier' win over Bob Foster was said to have been the best example of pressure fighting by a HW on film!
Frazier=ATG
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:09 AM   #173
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by maciek4 View Post
Frazier was like Hasim Rahman. Got 1 win over the legend, caught him on bad day, then clearly lost to him, won some against some good but not great opponents and lost to the best.
Hasim Rahman? Frazier won Olympic gold and has 2 wins over Jimmy Ellis and a win over George Chuvalo! All by stoppage. Frazier won the biggest fight in boxing history against Muhammad Ali.

Rahman once went a 3 year span without a single win. Rahman didnt start boxing until age 20. Rahman lost to old Holyfield!

FRAZIER'S only losses are to Muhammad Ali and George Foreman both ATG's Themselves!

You=cunt.


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Old 03-03-2013, 03:12 AM   #174
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by steviebruno View Post
George Foreman was 0-2 against ATGs.

He lost to both Ali and Holyfield.

(after two months, I decided to answer my own question)
Foreman beat Frazier twice by stoppage.
Foreman is 2-2 against ATG's.

Dumb ****!
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Old 03-03-2013, 03:17 AM   #175
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by Aquamarine View Post
Joe Frazier is even smaller than Chris Byrd and Eddie Chambers. His average prime weight was 205lbs, he had a reach of 73″ and was around 5'10"! At 215lbs he looked badly out of shape:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

Ruslan is a slightly bigger man, although they have different body types, Chagaevs prime weight was around 225lbs and he has a slightly longer reach, Fraziers prime was 205lbs (what he weighed in the 1st Ali fight!)...

Even the 216lb, former CW Jean Marc Mormeck wore the weight well:

[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I know size is not the be all & end all, but with margin's like that they have to factor in surely! Especially consideing Joe unlike i.e 215lb Chris Byrd wasn't the slickest or most agile of fighters!

I am a frazier fan and he will be missed, He had the heart to keep fighting and never give up no matter what. I don't think he is overrated either but he is a fighter of his time.
If James Toney and Roy Jones could come from MW and compete at HW and even win titles,Frazier could easily fight as a CW and come up to HW if he were alive today. Frazier's left hook would decapitate most cruiser's in the first 4 rounds and would hurt most heavyweights too.
And you're right size isn't everything. David Tua was 201 pounds in his first few fights. Roy Jones was 198 when he beat John Ruiz.

Marco Huck was 209 when he "beat" Povetkin.

Holyfield was 205 when he fought Bowe the first time.

Frazier is plenty big enough. Frazier at 205 would kill David Haye,Denis Boytsov,Povetkin,Marco Huck,Denis Lebedev etc
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Old 03-03-2013, 04:18 AM   #176
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

Oh why is this one back...
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:21 AM   #177
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by maciek4 View Post
Frazier was like Hasim Rahman. Got 1 win over the legend, caught him on bad day, then clearly lost to him, won some against some good but not great opponents and lost to the best.
I am speechless. I am a huge Rahman fan...but that comment is DISGUSTING and ****ING RETARDED.

Frazier beat a slew of good fighters. Rahman did not.

Wow. Just wow.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:24 AM   #178
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

Joe's best 5 wins?
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:26 AM   #179
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

I also CAN NOT STAND when people say guys like Frazier or Marciano would be cruiserweights today. Ever stop to think about nutrition and all the other enhancements in training that exist today? They would both be bigger than they were years back with the methods they had at their disposal.

God damnit, some of you people are ****ing retarded. Much be a combination of teenagers and Boxrec warriors. I don't see many, if any, lists that don't have Frazier in the top 10.
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Old 03-03-2013, 06:33 AM   #180
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Default Re: Joe Frazier, the most overrated heavyweight of all time

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Originally Posted by vargasfan1985 View Post
I also CAN NOT STAND when people say guys like Frazier or Marciano would be cruiserweights today.
More likely middle weight.
--
Rocky Marciano
height 5′ 11″ / 180cm
reach 67″ / 170cm
1955-09-21 188 Archie Moore 188
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